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Active bass or preamp pedal?


JamesBass
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So I'm needing a 5 string pretty badly right now, lots of the stuff I'm doing would benefit from having a lower octave to play in, but I'm in two minds with what I should get. Currently I only own passive basses, a P and a 4003 Ric, I know I'm missing something a bit more 'modern' sounding in my tonal Arsenal, but would a passive bass in to an EQ/preamp be better than an active? I had an active Traben and I found myself messing with the EQ FAR too much and swore that I'd never go back to an active bass, yet here I am thinking of getting an active bass! If I did get an active I'd want the ability to switch back to passive on the bass too, but would a passive bass in to a preamp/EQ pedal do the job?

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Fitting a John East J-retro to a Jazz Bass gives you a multitude of sounds at your fingertips (if you want them). They are great and allow you to EQ a bog standard Jazz to sound like any bass you want; from a P bass to a Stingray and everything in between.
I found the sound I was looking for pretty quickly and left it at those settings. I would occasionally make minor adjustments to suit the room.

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No matter what the theory tells you, I've not found a passive bass through preamp to sound like an active bass. Probably a result of active basses using different pickups e.g. Sadowsky J sounds different to Fender J through Sadowsky pre. The only thing you can do is try a few out but I'd say if you want a more modern sound go for an active bass. That's a very amateur opinion but one born from a similar quest to yours.

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Active controls are great for quick tone changes but I don't think they sound "better". I find a bit of bass boost useful for a jazz bridge pickup otherwise I find it easier to just get fhe head preamp set up right. I have an Aguilar OBP-3 and it is just so fierce. Not for the heavy handed. It is quite transparent though and flat makes very little difference to the sound of my Jazz.

My Tanglewood/Overwater has an East preamp but as I cannot switch it out I don't know what effect it has on the bass sound. The bass sounds really good to me and the tone controls are a bit more manageable than those on the Aguilar.

Edited by DBerriff
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[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1460900556' post='3029624']
Fitting a John East J-retro to a Jazz Bass gives you a multitude of sounds at your fingertips (if you want them). They are great and allow you to EQ a bog standard Jazz to sound like any bass you want; from a P bass to a Stingray and everything in between.
I found the sound I was looking for pretty quickly and left it at those settings. I would occasionally make minor adjustments to suit the room.
[/quote]
I really like the J-retro deluxe, the passive tone works even in active mode. I set the sound I like and then use the passive tone to change it a little for different songs. All the benefits of passive and active.

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[quote name='EmmettC' timestamp='1460906017' post='3029665']

I really like the J-retro deluxe, the passive tone works even in active mode. I set the sound I like and then use the passive tone to change it a little for different songs. All the benefits of passive and active.
[/quote]
That to me sounds similar to what I want, same as the non-deluxe j retro, something that is transparent but something that offers flexibility and tone shaping very quickly.

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I've been playing active basses for the most part: Sadowsky JJ and PJ, Sandberg PM, Trace Elliot, G&L L2500, Lakland w. J-Retro, MusicMan SR5, Spector w. EMG etc.


But since I got my first passive P five string, I quit them all.
There something in the dynamics of a pure passive bass that can't be replicated in a 9-18v on bord preamp.
I talked to some preamp (on board and outboard) builders about this and there seems to be a consensus that you'd need MORE than 18 volts to get the same amount of headroom with an active pre.

Anyway, my fave combination is either a Nordstrand VP5 or a Reverend Rumblefish 5L (both passive) throug a Basswitch by RMI/Lehle: all the headroom in my hands and very precise tone control at my feet.

Edited by gillento
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I much prefer having the tone controls on the bass as opposed to a pedal for the simple reason of its easier to change on the fly, which is something I do quite often with my band.

I find the whole "fiddling with it too much" thing a weird concept. Just get a sound that works then leave it?

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I'll second what Gillento said. I've been using a Basswitch for a couple of years now with passive basses (initially a Lakland Skyline JO and more recently a passive 5 Pbass)

Switching between round and flat wound string for different gigs I'll often have my musical director in one project ask me to make adjustments (usually if I've got flats on the p bass) and the Basswitch allows me to tailor the sound to suit the mix with minimal fuss. At my other gig I can push mids on stage to fit in with the live sound of the band yet still send a 'dry' signal FOH to be EQ'd for the room mix.

I'm not endorsed by RMI/Lehle but the range of Basswitch pedals might also be worth a look as I know a few happy customers. If you need dirt/drive there are other better suited options.

I'd suggest a preamp pedal just for this added flexibility. Naturally you'll get a heap of opinions and only you will know what works for your ears and budget.

It's good fun trying out the options!

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  • 4 years later...

My two cents....

Benefits of an outboard pre-amp includes not having to modify your bass, switching in/out with your feet, using it with different basses/situations, no 9v battery issues.

Benefits of an onboard pre-amp includes quick hands on changes, pickup/pre-amp compatibility (if chosen correctly), no extra gear carrying

They both have can be connected to the power-amp section of an amp (plug into the return to bypass the pre-amp section) to have a familiar tone. 

I personally prefer the onboard system but to each his own! (And I support local...East-UK is the bomb!!)

Good luck on your searches

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On 17/04/2016 at 14:28, JamesBass said:

So I'm needing a 5 string pretty badly right now, lots of the stuff I'm doing would benefit from having a lower octave to play in, but I'm in two minds with what I should get. Currently I only own passive basses, a P and a 4003 Ric, I know I'm missing something a bit more 'modern' sounding in my tonal Arsenal, but would a passive bass in to an EQ/preamp be better than an active? I had an active Traben and I found myself messing with the EQ FAR too much and swore that I'd never go back to an active bass, yet here I am thinking of getting an active bass! If I did get an active I'd want the ability to switch back to passive on the bass too, but would a passive bass in to a preamp/EQ pedal do the job?

Never quite understood the point of an external preamp.

The point of an internal preamp is to buffer your signal so you don't get signal losses in your lead. Once you have done that you might as well put tone controls on there but that isn't so much important.

What is the point of an external preamp? What is it providing that the preamp in your amplifier is not doing for you? I suppose if you are going straight to the PA there is one, but otherwise? You have already lost your treble in the lead, and got whatever noise is going, so you don't gain anything else.

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There's not much difference in reality if I'm honest, provided you find the right sound for your needs. 

I played active basses pretty much exclusively for the past 10 years or so, but in the last 6 months I've realised that passive basses with traditional Alnico pickups have a certain organic purity, response and depth of tone that I was not getting from active basses. I think an onboard preamp naturally adds a certain compression to the sound also. 

So I've ended up firmly back in the passive camp, and received my new passive bass a week ago. I'm super happy. 

I do have an MXR DI+ on my pedal board though, which I mainly use as a drive pedal, but if you click it onto the clean channel it does a very satisfying active sound, and has a 3 band eq and a 'color' button (preset scoop). I don't often find myself wanting to use this, but it works really well when I do. 

I think a lot of it depends on what sort of tone you're chasing, what bass sounds you like listening to, and what the application is in terms of band/style, etc. 

In my opinion, an outboard preamp gives you more of the best of both worlds UNLESS you need extreme tonal control on the fly; if you're a solo bassist who does looping and a variety of techniques /parts etc, then an onboard preamp is probably more convenient. 

Edited by TRBboy
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On 17/04/2016 at 15:42, Mykesbass said:

Have recently discovered the joys of an MXR DI+, got it primarily for a bit of grit, but love what the preamp setting does to tighten my tone. Also handy as a standby if I ever need to go through the PA.

Sounds great doesn't it! If I could only keep one pedal, that would be it. I also mainly use it for the drive sound, but on the clean channel it gives you such a great 'active' tone. Massively underrated in my opinion. 

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I like my external preamp (Sadowsky) as it offers frequencies my amp doesn't and, as a side benefit, it buffers my signal. By not having it in my bass, I only need one preamp, not one for each bass. The downside is having to have my pedalboard available, but as I also use a compressor, chorus, octave and pedal tuner, I'd probably be taking it anyway. If I only had one bass, I'd probably fit an Aguilar OPB1 as that does the same job as the pedal and free up some room on the board.

 

 

EDIT: Holy thread resurrection, Batman!

Edited by ezbass
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On 17/04/2016 at 14:42, gjones said:

Fitting a John East J-retro to a Jazz Bass gives you a multitude of sounds at your fingertips (if you want them). They are great and allow you to EQ a bog standard Jazz to sound like any bass you want; from a P bass to a Stingray and everything in between.

No amount of EQ will make a Jazz sound like a Stingray. There's no substitute for changing the location of the pickup.

Personally I like basses with active pre-amps if the bass sounds perfect with everything flat, leaving me with options to adjust if required. I wouldn't want to rely on a preamp for the bass to sound it's best.

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On 17/04/2016 at 16:01, edpirie said:

No matter what the theory tells you, I've not found a passive bass through preamp to sound like an active bass. Probably a result of active basses using different pickups e.g. Sadowsky J sounds different to Fender J through Sadowsky pre. The only thing you can do is try a few out but I'd say if you want a more modern sound go for an active bass. That's a very amateur opinion but one born from a similar quest to yours.

I know there are many variables (especially active pickups) but broadly speaking, I agree with this from my experience.

I'd hazard a guess that (hopefully) the onboard EQ has been voiced (or at least selected) to complement the instrument. A pedal won't have been, as its brief is much broader. And then there's the rack-mountable pre-amps and EQs.

I have an old Ampeg SVP-Pro, and thats a different flavour again. But the valves would have something to do with that..

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A few things, unless your preamp is defective, it will not be introducing a compression in your bass. Amplifier circuits are very simple and well done. If anything it could be preventing compression, especially when it comes to high frequencies.

A preamp sounds "more hifi" because you haven't lost the high frequency in the RC network that is your lead. The organic sound of your pickup is the sound with a decent preamp (and note, that doesn't mean expensive). The sound you may like (the vintage sound) is the sound with the treble trimmed off by the lead, or the capacitor of a passive tone control. It is common to like that sound, that is why you get 'lead simulators' on wireless transmitters (as you are effectively doing the same as a preamp), which simulate the losses in the lead. I am surprised more preamps don't have a 'vintage' setting where it rolls off those tones.

If your preamp is colouring your signal, when you have no controls turned up or down, ie, if there is any difference between it on and off in a perfect lead (or an unsimulated wireless), then there is something wrong with your preamp, or it is designed that way (like a tonepump or something).

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45 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

A few things, unless your preamp is defective, it will not be introducing a compression in your bass. Amplifier circuits are very simple and well done. If anything it could be preventing compression, especially when it comes to high frequencies.

A preamp sounds "more hifi" because you haven't lost the high frequency in the RC network that is your lead. The organic sound of your pickup is the sound with a decent preamp (and note, that doesn't mean expensive). The sound you may like (the vintage sound) is the sound with the treble trimmed off by the lead, or the capacitor of a passive tone control. It is common to like that sound, that is why you get 'lead simulators' on wireless transmitters (as you are effectively doing the same as a preamp), which simulate the losses in the lead. I am surprised more preamps don't have a 'vintage' setting where it rolls off those tones.

If your preamp is colouring your signal, when you have no controls turned up or down, ie, if there is any difference between it on and off in a perfect lead (or an unsimulated wireless), then there is something wrong with your preamp, or it is designed that way (like a tonepump or something).

Logical explanation there! Makes a lot of sense. I'm still happy with a passive bass though, it's giving me what I want, and I rarely touched the controls on my active basses anyway. 

It also gives me piece of mind... For the first time in 22 years of gigging, I last year had both of my main basses (both active) develop some sort of issue whilst playing a show! No output. Still no idea what caused it, and the odds are astronomical, but it happened. Definitely wasn't Batteries. The band had to carry on without me for a few songs. Got one working again, but the whole experience rattled me! 

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23 minutes ago, TRBboy said:

Logical explanation there! Makes a lot of sense. I'm still happy with a passive bass though, it's giving me what I want, and I rarely touched the controls on my active basses anyway. 

And that is fine too!

23 minutes ago, TRBboy said:

The band had to carry on without me for a few songs. Got one working again, but the whole experience rattled me! 

We have that almost every gig with the guitarist. As he is using a les paul and a valve amp, it is not a preamp issue! Normally a rubbishy fender lead.

He was once annoyed that he cut out at the beginning of dani california and we carried on the song without him, and after the gig someone that has seen us a lot came up and asked what was different as it sounded really good. Very very amused!

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2 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

And that is fine too!

We have that almost every gig with the guitarist. As he is using a les paul and a valve amp, it is not a preamp issue! Normally a rubbishy fender lead.

He was once annoyed that he cut out at the beginning of dani california and we carried on the song without him, and after the gig someone that has seen us a lot came up and asked what was different as it sounded really good. Very very amused!

It was so annoying, tried different batteries, cables, bypassing pedal board, everything. Ended up backstage whilst the band carried on, with the control cavity open trying to blow the pots out in case these was some detritus in there. One of them started working again. 🤷‍♂️

And they were both fine after! 

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2 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

And that is fine too!

We have that almost every gig with the guitarist. As he is using a les paul and a valve amp, it is not a preamp issue! Normally a rubbishy fender lead.

He was once annoyed that he cut out at the beginning of dani california and we carried on the song without him, and after the gig someone that has seen us a lot came up and asked what was different as it sounded really good. Very very amused!

It was so annoying, tried different batteries, cables, bypassing pedal board, everything. Ended up backstage whilst the band carried on, with the control cavity open trying to blow the pots out in case these was some detritus in there. One of them started working again. 🤷‍♂️

And they were both fine after! 

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9 minutes ago, TRBboy said:

It was so annoying, tried different batteries, cables, bypassing pedal board, everything. Ended up backstage whilst the band carried on, with the control cavity open trying to blow the pots out in case these was some detritus in there. One of them started working again. 🤷‍♂️

And they were both fine after! 

Yeh, I did that once. The bass amp was on mute :D

 

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4 hours ago, ped said:

No amount of EQ will make a Jazz sound like a Stingray. There's no substitute for changing the location of the pickup.

My opinion has changed over the 4 years since I wrote that post. Now I think a preamp pedal would be a better option, because then you could get your musicman to sound like a Jazz Bass :biggrin:

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