Happy Jack Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 [quote name='lowhand_mike' post='290003' date='Sep 23 2008, 02:28 PM']just a bit of a wuss when it come to confrontation.[/quote] No worries - just email him a link to this thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumps Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I know i'm new so hope i dont tread on toes. When i joined my first ever band, i joined at a time when this situation was just bubbling under the surface. I pointed out that as a band were all here to make music & have fun if either of these things are happening whats the point. When you join a band you make a commitment to the other guys, you agree to turn up, learn your parts & know your bit.....if you dont then your messing the rest of the band about. And when it comes to gigs your making the band look stupid & that is basically unfair......I'm being as polite as possible here but i would not join a band if i cant be arsed to learn the parts, or expect to be in a band if i'm crap..... He needs a vocal slap round the head because he is messing you guys around. Life is too short to worry about a tantrum mate......I'd either tell him or by behaviour show your not happy. there ....my 2p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share Posted September 23, 2008 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='289998' date='Sep 23 2008, 02:27 PM']One point: The rtm gtrst is his brother...how does he feel about it? If anyone can talk your singer round, it should be his bro. Ermm...it's not the Gallaghers, is it? [/quote] thing is as far as i know his brother already knows as he has been told by his daughter and mates. but thats a possibility to see what he thinks. [quote name='Happy Jack' post='290013' date='Sep 23 2008, 02:40 PM']No worries - just email him a link to this thread! [/quote] er maybe not lol but that does lead me onto another idea which was to get a myspace page up with a comments section, next time we do a gig hand out the web address to get peoples thoughts and i'm sure it would get the message across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 As the guys in the band, it should come from you, not people outside the band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_the_bassist Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 [quote name='lowhand_mike' post='290018' date='Sep 23 2008, 02:45 PM']next time we do a gig hand out the web address to get peoples thoughts and i'm sure it would get the message across.[/quote] That may not work. I think, IMHO, that you'll only get false "you guys are great" replies or none. I've found that people don't like giving honest critisism, they'd rather call you all w***ers or ignore you than say "the singer should learn his lines and sing in tune, but the rest of the band are good!". I really hope you find a way to talk to him about this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share Posted September 23, 2008 yeah you're right funk and phil. hehe i was looking for the chicken sh*t way out. so either we get him to sort it and give him a slap to get his act together or just tell him straight and see what happens there after. thanks again all i'll keep you posted as to what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 [quote name='The Funk' post='290023' date='Sep 23 2008, 02:54 PM']As the guys in the band, it should come from you, not people outside the band.[/quote] Yeah you don't want your myspace covered in " you have a crap singer" hardly likely to get you better gigs or a following ... Have a band meeting and get everything out on the table .. there's probably other things to talk about ike where you are going, gigs you'd liek to play, material to learn over the next few months etc. Oh and go prepared to leave if they gang up on you as the relative newcomer and non-brother ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky L Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Difficult situation mate, and one I am in too.. plus a crap rhythm guitarist and drummer! Ok so the lead guitar and I joined this covers band a few years back as summat to do, neither having been in a band for some years. The limitations of the others soon became apparent.. but they have improved, and on Saturday we had the best gig ever. But Or singer is getting worse, off pitch, timing issues. When we try a new song it takes for ever for him to actually get round to listening to the original so he knows what he should do. I sing harmonies and the amount of times he has looked at me, when we are doing a chorus and it sounds crap.. because HE is out, not me. His range is poor and sings like it's kareoke too!! It is difficult, but you have to say something and encourage working together. Play through a song with just the singer and the guitar and say if a bit is bad. I managed to get part of a gig videoed and it was actually one of his worst performances, he knew that, but wont watch the vid! :lol In our band, we have no illusions of grandure, just want to play a few gigs, but there has to be some commitment to our fellow band members by making an effort. Bite the bullet chum, try stripping a rehersal down to the basics so he is exposed and can't blame others, and tell him, but tactfully! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 If he's really convinced that he's in tune when he isn't the only way is a proper recording session with him in a vocal booth. Sit him down, play the full mix then slowly remove the instruments to leave the naked lead vocal. If that doesn't convince him nothing will and you might as well find another singer or leave. The singer in my last band had difficulties learning lines and still had lyric books on our last gigs but did seem to be slowly improving. As an aside next time you are at a big arena gig have a look inside the singer's 'monitor' - you might be surprised at how often these days it isn't a monitor at all but an autocue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 SOrry,But I have to be harsh as f*** here and say it straight.... IF HE IS sh*t,HE IS sh*t.... If hes crap and wont admit it,then what chance do you have to 'talk him round'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 We had the same situation. Same set in the same order for two years and the singer not only couldn't remember the words, he couldn't remember how they got assembled into songs either (not helped by his copious alcohol consumption). Unfortunately, none of us are confrontational (I'm the closest to it, which is not very close at all) and so we didn't resolve it until the band was on the verge of breaking up, when the singer phoned the drummer and told him he was considering packing it in, and the drummer persuaded him that he should. If any of you are able to be directly critical of him to his face, in an unambiguous fashion, then do it. It could be he's perfectly capable and needs a kick up the arse, it could be that he's sh*te, in which case you need to be rid of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share Posted October 14, 2008 (edited) ok, resurecting this one as we had a "chat" last week i couldn't make practice due to comuting problems, which didnt go down well, but then neither did the singer, so the other 3 had a chat about it. but are now pissed off with me for not being there (er niether was the singer) any way last night went down to have a proper chat with all of us there and then the guitarist gets a text to say the drummer wont be there. ? good start. we start off being tactile but pretty much immediately he gets sh*tty even though we suggest possible ways of changing and improving. doesnt go down well and he basically says if thats how we feel he'll jack it in, but the guitarists think he should stay in some capacity. bla blah blah, turns out he wasnt the singer in the first place before i joined, and only started singing cos their old one left and he even said last night, 'i'm not a singer'. now seems like we are going to let the lead guitarist do a couple of songs and the drummer (who is a singer) do a couple of songs if he can. though we are still to speak to the drummer and he's not answering my calls at all. now i am on the point of jacking it in after gettting home last night and thinking about it all. the fact that the singer actually said that he's not a singer and add to that we can only do songs in his range which limits us to a certain extent. ok we may get by by using the drummer and guitarist more for lead vocals and he may just get bored and leave. but i'm now not sure. quite possibly the worst meeting i've ever had as i'm not confrontational (to a point) until i blow, and its now left me with the feeling that no matter what we do now it's not going to have that feeling it used to. Edited October 14, 2008 by lowhand_mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylon Pilson Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Your band is in a pretty bad state. You need to find a singer who can sing, and shift your current singer into some other role (does he play guitar?) If you can't find a singer who is competent and enthusiastic, then you're always going to be banging your head against a brick wall. S.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I'm a bit late with my post but WTF. We had issue with our keyboardist losing focus half way through the songs. Sometimes he'd be enjoying them so much, he'd forget to play. Othertimes he'd just busk and come in on cues late and it wasn't ever really a bring it up in band issue but it was irking to say the least. Then we recorded ourselves at a gig so we could mime over it for a demo vid. When we did the vid, it became glaringly obvious that the keyboardist had missed cues, played wrong notes, screwed up his solo and generally was playing sloppily. We did about 5 takes for that video and each time we did a take, he had to put up with hearing his mistakes over and over again. He and the guitarist still coast at gigs, but he's at least aware of the issue and I can turn around to him when he stops playing because he's too absorbed in the song, and give him The Eye. The coasting bit we're still dealing with. Sometimes both the keys and guitarist will stop playing (the guitarist suddenly finds he needs to retune a squier strat that he actually tuned 2 songs ago with his electronic tuner) so its just the drums, the singers, the bass and percussion... ...so plus one to the idea of recording a session and listening to it as a band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantdosleepy Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='306168' date='Oct 14 2008, 01:04 PM']Sometimes the guitarist will stop playing (the guitarist suddenly finds he needs to retune a squier strat that he actually tuned 2 songs ago with his electronic tuner) so its just the drums, the singers, the bass and percussion...[/quote] Sounds familiar. I'm in a four-piece, and every set the guitar will disappear at a random point for a random length of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='306168' date='Oct 14 2008, 01:04 PM']Sometimes both the keys and guitarist will stop playing (the guitarist suddenly finds he needs to retune a squier strat that he actually tuned 2 songs ago with his electronic tuner) so its just the drums, the singers, the bass and percussion...[/quote] [quote name='Cantdosleepy' post='306177' date='Oct 14 2008, 01:09 PM']Sounds familiar. I'm in a four-piece, and every set the guitar will disappear at a random point for a random length of time.[/quote] Here too. Our rhythm guitarist/male singer does exactly that, at least once per gig, if not once per set. Normally on a song he needs to start to allow our lead guitarist to do the, er, lead bits. "You start this one, I've got to tune" "So where does the lead part go?" Oh, and he has a bloody music stand with lyrics, 5 years in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Mike, you’ve all broken the ice, that's great. You had the first meeting and people are owning up to there being problems. That's great as well. Now you've all had time to digest what was said (and what wasn't) have another meeting to sort out the "action plan" you've started. Don't blame anyone just keep the emphasis on, "How do we fix what's broken and get everything back on track". If you keep it positive then you start with a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 [quote name='lowhand_mike' post='306097' date='Oct 14 2008, 11:24 AM']we start off being tactile but pretty much immediately he gets sh*tty[/quote] You sure you mean [i]tactile[/i]? When I'm about to tell someone they're a sh*t musician, I normally don't touch them first - and try to stay out of belting distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share Posted October 14, 2008 cheers guys couple of things i havent mentioned, they may not be that relevent. but as soon as we started saying he needed to buck up his ideas, practice not sat down/ ditch the cheat sheets/ concentrate etc he obviously got sh*tty and went one the offensive. now one thing that does eat into our setup time and thus sound check is the lead guitarist having to set up the PA, which stresses him out and then that slowly filters out to the rest of us. so we need to get a stage box and loom built (whatever they are) and that seems like the first thing on the list for next week along with going over the set list and general stuff that we should eb doing, ie i mean starting to be a bit more professional about it all. practices have become sloppy, so much time is pent setting up the vocals each week, part of which is geting all the wires and crap from the PA right. sp yeah i guess our next meet up will be the action plan like chris said. i've got some appoligising to do with the drummer as he is still not speaking to me and we were good mates. i still want to record our practices so we can hear where its not right but to do that the PA needs to become a plug and play (well nearly) bit of kit so we dont loose and hour ish getting that right. the hard thing is saying all this without it sounding like we are finger pointing, and everyone accepting that if WE cant give/take critisim from our band mates then it will be even harder from other people. if i am playing sh*t i EXPECT to be told that by them. Its weird it is almost as if we are starting from scratch again and i don't know these guys. i'll keep you posted on this and thanks again for all the advice and stuff, sometime wish my band was as cool as this place (god that sounds sad:P ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share Posted October 14, 2008 [quote name='The Funk' post='306215' date='Oct 14 2008, 01:42 PM']You sure you mean [i]tactile[/i]? When I'm about to tell someone they're a sh*t musician, I normally don't touch them first - and try to stay out of belting distance.[/quote] well im sure i mean it in the sense of what it means in my head, and yeah i dont think it was far off him taking a swing, fortunately i was out of belting distance there is talk of him going back onto guitar and backing vocals though he doesnt seem too happy about it, says "it's too late for that", i think he means he's getting too old to start changing which sounds a bit like a cop out. we are going to change the set and how the singing is done, some that are in his range and others that arent will be delt with by the lead and drummer (hopefully) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 [quote name='lowhand_mike' post='306227' date='Oct 14 2008, 01:51 PM']i've got some appoligising to do with the drummer as he is still not speaking to me and we were good mates.[/quote] How did this happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 [quote name='lowhand_mike' post='306234' date='Oct 14 2008, 01:56 PM'] well im sure i mean it in the sense of what it means in my head[/quote] I'm just being a knob. I think you meant tactful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share Posted October 14, 2008 [quote name='The Funk' post='306236' date='Oct 14 2008, 01:59 PM']I'm just being a knob. I think you meant tactful. [/quote] hehe, thats the fella never was good with english. lol just checked the definition, so yeah i wasn't trying to be that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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