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Kevin Dean

Playing stuff wrong

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Guest bassman7755

[quote name='Skybone' timestamp='1456567850' post='2990303']
Surely covers are open to interpretation, if it sounds good, what's the problem?

There are far too many people who get far too anal about getting the song "right" IMO, and loose something from the band dynamic.
[/quote]

Its like telling a joke, you can take liberties with some details without ruining it but the essence must remain intact. "Cheetah walks into a pub and the barman says why the long face ?" - not really funny is it.

Edited by bassman7755

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[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1456501890' post='2989734']
Guy Pratt plays a 5-String on Pulse. In comfortably numb he has gratutitously overused the bottom string. Don't know what note it is but all the chords and the melody line ascends - giving the song a lift, while the bass note tries to drag the song down.

That's not an accidental wrong note, that's a bad choice.

IMO.
[/quote]

It differs from the original in two places, I think - in the first instrumental he goes from low B to the A G F# E run down, and in the choruses, the second time through the D A D A he plays the low rather than the high D. The bit in the instrumental sounds wrong to me, I can see the logic of what he's doing in the chorus though as in that part the melody rises from D to A rather than falling.

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[quote name='smurfitt' timestamp='1456579120' post='2990433']
Always play exact because it sounds better.
[/quote]

The world didn't need another band playing "With a little help from my friends" the same way as the Beatles, thankfully Joe Cocker wasn't getting advice from Basschat.

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No, but I've been told I'm playing it wrong when I'm playing it right! 'But that's how it goes on the original' I cry. 'This is our interpretation' they respond.

'Well you can do what you like with the guitar part, but I want to play the bass line as close as possible to the original' I think but don't say.

I'm in a Rolling Stones covers band atm. I know there is a debate to be had about whether or not you do things exactly as per the original. But if you're doing a Stones number that is itself a cover, you have to play it like them otherwise it's just your cover of a Chuck Berry or Robert Johnson Song. That's what I think anyway, but I don't say anything as I'm the new girl in the band and they asked me to join so I don't want to rock the boat.

The other thing that bugs me is that singer consistently gets the words wrong. So if I'm doing BVs I have to sing them wrong as well otherwise it sounds weird. I couldn't bring myself to sing 'savilate' instead of 'salivate' though. (It's in the lyrics to 'Bitch' in case you're wondering) :D

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[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1456594696' post='2990623']
Its like telling a joke, you can take liberties with some details without ruining it but the essence must remain intact. "Cheetah walks into a pub and the barman says why the long face ?" - not really funny is it.
[/quote]

Not really, he only went for a swift half.

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[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1456601072' post='2990683']


It differs from the original in two places, I think - in the first instrumental he goes from low B to the A G F# E run down, and in the choruses, the second time through the D A D A he plays the low rather than the high D. The bit in the instrumental sounds wrong to me, I can see the logic of what he's doing in the chorus though as in that part the melody rises from D to A rather than falling.
[/quote]

It's the last note of each verse that's wrong, the vocals lift going into the chorus.

Edited by TimR

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I don't know what you're all listening to, but I'm listening to Guy Pratt playing a 5 string status with Pink Floyd in 1994.

Sounds like perfect 5 string bass playing to me.

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[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1456480133' post='2989389'] that way to band is kicking.
I usually start with a note-for-note transcription from the original, but inevitably I end up departing from this.

What really annoys me is when people clearly haven't paid any proper attention to the original and just play 'what they think'.
[/quote]

What I'd do is pick people who bring something along with them... and then If I've got it, then they need to build on that..if they've got it.
I need to get 'it'..

That way the band is kicking and the song is moving.
The original becomes a reference and we should be looking to moving the song on or at least do something with it.

I don't enjoy bands who play by numbers in general and certainly wouldn't want to play in one..

Edited by JTUK

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[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1456438712' post='2989150']
Playing exactly the same as the original song only really works if the rest of the band are doing the same. I play the same songs differently with different bandmates if it works better that way.
[/quote]
Spot on and it frustrates the hell out of me when others don't learn the song as the original. When peeps say "Interpretation" it is often an excuse for not being bothered. The offender has had a quick listen in the car on the way to rehearsal. Its a problem i have to deal with as the majority of players seem to approach learning tunes in a slaphappy way.

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And another thing that happens due to this amateur approach is that the tune gets gigged and the band say "hmm not sure that really works". Leaves you thinking, actually the tune does work its just you lazy fecker(s) have screwed it up cos you didn't do the work. When you have 2 or 3 in the band with that attitude then it becomes a problem. Of course, mine is a minority view, most others are happy with an "interpretation" and i just have to deal with it.

The irony is that it has never been easier to be able to learn songs with DAWs and YouTube etc. Back in the old days of listening to tapes or records it was a lot harder. Today you can go on YouTube, convert to MP3, import into some software, LISTEN TO THE ORIGINAL PART WITHOUT NOODLING. Just use your ears and a bit of patience. Then EQ the original bass part out and play along to get the nuances.

Sorry guys, you've touched a nerve...

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[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1456668622' post='2991177']
And another thing that happens due to this amateur approach is that the tune gets gigged and the band say "hmm not sure that really works". Leaves you thinking, actually the tune does work its just you lazy fecker(s) have screwed it up cos you didn't do the work. When you have 2 or 3 in the band with that attitude then it becomes a problem. Of course, mine is a minority view, most others are happy with an "interpretation" and i just have to deal with it.

The irony is that it has never been easier to be able to learn songs with DAWs and YouTube etc. Back in the old days of listening to tapes or records it was a lot harder. Today you can go on YouTube, convert to MP3, import into some software, LISTEN TO THE ORIGINAL PART WITHOUT NOODLING. Just use your ears and a bit of patience. Then EQ the original bass part out and play along to get the nuances.

Sorry guys, you've touched a nerve...
[/quote]

It's also quite possible that, having listened to, appreciated and learned the 'right' parts, some retouching is required to get it to fit with the 'real' band setting in which it is to be played, rather than the more ideal 'studio' setting that the original was created in. The trombone solo in 'Beds Are Burning' is done by our singer, for instance, with no trombone, just vocalising. We don't have a string section or keys, either, so we adapt. No-one gets hurt, normally, and folks enjoy the result, so... There is even scope sometimes (often..?) for doing [i]better [/i]than the original, in the context of one's own band.
One could always play the CD as a backing track and mime, if it's a faithful original coupled with a live act that's preferred. Some 'original' artists do this, I'm told. :mellow:

Edited by Dad3353

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[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1456670295' post='2991201']
The trombone solo in 'Beds Are Burning' is done by our singer, for instance, with no trombone, just vocalising. We don't have a string section or keys, either, so we adapt. No-one gets hurt, normally, and folks enjoy the result, so... There is even scope sometimes (often..?) for doing [i]better [/i]than the original, in the context of one's own band.

[/quote]

:D We do 'beds are burning' currently most gigs , I didnt realise we were missing a trombone :lol:

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[quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1456670636' post='2991207']
:D We do 'beds are burning' currently most gigs , I didnt realise we were missing a trombone :lol:
[/quote]

Our eldest used to play with a ska/punk/rock outfit; we once had the three-piece brass section doing the intro and solo correctly for us at an open-air concert. What a difference..! Our singist has a fair crack at it, though; it's fun. The bass line, incidentally, is a bit odd, technically, but it fits well once used to it.

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[quote name='Subbeh' timestamp='1456428131' post='2988996']
He wasn't being a git, in fact he was doing what more guitarists ought to and paying attention to something other than himself. Sounds like you've got a good 'un!
[/quote]
I was just joshing .. I was just saying that it's nice to play with guys that actually listen to each other & can make comment without taking offence ...I still said He was a git though ;)

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[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1456655501' post='2991014']
I don't know what you're all listening to, but I'm listening to Guy Pratt playing a 5 string status with Pink Floyd in 1994.

Sounds like perfect 5 string bass playing to me.
[/quote]

It's the last note of the verse. Everything lifts into the chorus. Except the bass. :D

Just because you can play a note doesn't mean you should.

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[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1456678020' post='2991294']


It's the last note of the verse. Everything lifts into the chorus. Except the bass. :D

Just because you can play a note doesn't mean you should.
[/quote]

I'm sure David Gilmour would have said if he didn't like it!!

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[quote name='barneyg42' timestamp='1456678508' post='2991308']


I'm sure David Gilmour would have said if he didn't like it!!
[/quote]

Maybe. But he's not a bass player and it's a live performance.

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[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1456678020' post='2991294']
It's the last note of the verse. Everything lifts into the chorus. Except the bass. :D

Just because you can play a note doesn't mean you should.
[/quote]
Yeah, but also just cos everything else lifts doesn't mean you should. Contrary motion, counterpoint etc all valid musical devices.

I'm not saying you're wrong as i've never listened to the song you are on about. But musically i like things moving in different directions.

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[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1456505404' post='2989823']
When you play legato notes under a melody, your note choice is very important.
[/quote]

Why? Why is it very important when legato and not staccato? And why when under a melody as opposed to not?

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Nothing wrong with playing the wrong notes, just play them in the right order. :D
If its agreed on at the begining its a cover then you should do your best to get it right,
have you ever worked hard at a bass line then at a practice found the drummer is jamming all over your hard work. Valerie by the zutons is a great example of this sounds easy but the bass drum is right under and following the bass line, most drummers blagg this,
does not fit does it ?, and very anoying. songs are like a jigsaw if one piece is played wrong things dont fit right.

If agreed tho bit of interpretation in songs are a great way to let songs evolve into areas they would not normaly go,
Some songs tho i feel your hands are tied, soul music is a good example of this, most of those lines are so ingrained into people
and most of them hold the melody.
play anything other and they will know you are blaggin it, unless again its a clear interpretation by all the band

Edited by funkgod

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[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1456670295' post='2991201']
It's also quite possible that, having listened to, appreciated and learned the 'right' parts, some retouching is required to get it to fit with the 'real' band setting in which it is to be played, rather than the more ideal 'studio' setting that the original was created in.
[/quote]

This is it. Getting the part right in the first place. This should be done way before you get into the rehearsal space with your band.

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[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1456690537' post='2991504']
This is it. Getting the part right in the first place. This should be done way before you get into the rehearsal space with your band.
[/quote]

...and usually is, at least i the band that I've played in. After which, we do things as best fits the band..! Our version of 'Space Oddity' is a far cry from the original..! :D

Edited by Dad3353

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