r16ktx Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1453379959' post='2958896'] And prices don't seem to be dropping. Shoudn't class-D with amps being put together with computer soldered SMD PCB's and sharing generic OEM parts in the PSU and power-amp modules be way more cheaper by now? The only real R&D seems to be on the preamps and they don't vary as much also. We're, again, paying for the brand... [/quote] Indeed http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/clone-amplifiers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubis Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I like the coasters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Just an FYI on this, this is very much the prototype and it is just being announced at Namm. I think Summer is the target for these things actually being made and distributed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimefred Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 its class D, so no. I need my amps to have actual power and heft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='longtimefred' timestamp='1453389386' post='2959057'] its class D, so no. I need my amps to have actual power and heft. [/quote] They claim this will match older amps. I also like the fact we have a company saying that class d doesn't match older tech (till now apparently). From Darkglass Since bassists adopted them, class D amplifiers were seen as convenient version of much bigger and heavier, yet better sounding, amps. Most musicians were happy with compromising sound and power by saving money, weight and space. So a year ago we set ourselves up to end these compromises. We wanted the best sounding amplifier period: louder, more versatile and articulate. It just happens to be one of the lightest, most compact and elegantly designed bass amplifiers out there. Fully designed and built in Finland. We present you the Microtubes 700." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1453395248' post='2959141'] They claim this will match older amps. I also like the fact we have a company saying that class d doesn't match older tech (till now apparently). From Darkglass Since bassists adopted them, class D amplifiers were seen as convenient version of much bigger and heavier, yet better sounding, amps. Most musicians were happy with compromising sound and power by saving money, weight and space. So a year ago we set ourselves up to end these compromises. We wanted the best sounding amplifier period: louder, more versatile and articulate. It just happens to be one of the lightest, most compact and elegantly designed bass amplifiers out there. Fully designed and built in Finland. We present you the Microtubes 700." [/quote] I'm assuming it's the same power module that's in the latest batch of Micros - The Mesa Subway, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1453395248' post='2959141'] We wanted the best sounding amplifier period: louder, more versatile and articulate. [/quote] Didn't somebody's mummy not say, "I want never gets"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimefred Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1453395248' post='2959141'] They claim this will match older amps. I also like the fact we have a company saying that class d doesn't match older tech (till now apparently). From Darkglass Since bassists adopted them, class D amplifiers were seen as convenient version of much bigger and heavier, yet better sounding, amps. Most musicians were happy with compromising sound and power by saving money, weight and space. So a year ago we set ourselves up to end these compromises. We wanted the best sounding amplifier period: louder, more versatile and articulate. It just happens to be one of the lightest, most compact and elegantly designed bass amplifiers out there. Fully designed and built in Finland. We present you the Microtubes 700." [/quote] i will be sure wanting to test one out as i run the B7K as my main pre amp directly into a 650w Crest Audio power amp. If this little box can out perform that beast then i will be the first to eat my hat and buy one and say i was wrong. I doubt i am wrong as the technology that class D amps uses to harvest and release the power, in my view will never be able to compete with the big lumps of iron in the old class A amps. it just doesn't seem possible. its an odd one for me as i bought the TC Blacksmith and i was running that at 924w RMS excluding all the TC bullshit that says its 1600w @ 2 ohms. yes it was loud and it sounded good, but there was no authority, that "heft" everyone speaks about that they lack. Same when i have used a Genz streamliner 900. So for DG to say they wanted a 700w Class D amp to be louder doesn't really give me confidence that there will be any significant weight behind the volume that class D lacks because i know they can be loud, just not in the right way. hope that makes sense, does in my mind. I want to be open minded about this as i love DG stuff, we shall see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Just thought I'd chime in to a class-D thread and say the word 'heft' a lot. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leroydiamond Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I have been through several micro amps over as many years. Got tired lifting heavy gear and my aching limbs were happy to sacrifice grid iron heft in favour of portability, small foot print and sheer convenience of small, light gear. Well over a year ago I pulled the trigger on the cheap as chips Kustom KXB500 class D bass amp (377 Euro). I intended to have it as a back up, but to my surprise the little thing kicked every micro I had tried right out of the ball park. It knocks out a thick, syrupy, fat tone with ease. Real heft in every note. My amp GAS in non existence since I started using this thing (other than wanting to purchase a second one). However sadly it is now out of production and therefore unavailable. Guess Kustom did not know what they had on their hands with this baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1453395248' post='2959141'] They claim this will match older amps. I also like the fact we have a company saying that class d doesn't match older tech (till now apparently). From Darkglass Since bassists adopted them, [b]class D amplifiers were seen as convenient version of much bigger and heavier, yet better sounding, amps.[/b] Most musicians were happy with compromising sound and power by saving money, weight and space. So a year ago we set ourselves up to end these compromises. We wanted the best sounding amplifier period: louder, more versatile and articulate. It just happens to be one of the lightest, most compact and elegantly designed bass amplifiers out there.[b] Fully designed and built in Finland.[/b] We present you the Microtubes 700." [/quote] So, i take that it doesn't have a B&O power amp and PSU module. I'm curious to know if they designed a new amp section like Markbass did. Going off-topic, it seems that i'm one of the few that actually prefers class-D to old and heavy amps. The "heft" that some mention for me translates in to boominess and muddy on stages. In pub gigs the lack of sub-bass from class-D is really helpfull, it helps the bass being heard better at lower volume and doesn't mess with the mics in the drum kit. This NYE i've played at a very big event (around 10k audience), we were opening the evening and had to switch the gear for the second act very quickly during the mid-night fire works so i took the Shuttle instead of the big rack for practicability. I kicked in the bass boost filter and haven't missed anything tonewise and volumewise during that gig. It made me reconsider carting the heavy rack for those outdoor gigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byo Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1453395248' post='2959141'] From Darkglass Since bassists adopted them, class D amplifiers were seen as convenient version of much bigger and heavier, yet better sounding, amps. Most musicians were happy with compromising sound and power by saving money, weight and space. So a year ago we set ourselves up to end these compromises. We wanted the best sounding amplifier period: louder, more versatile and articulate. It just happens to be one of the lightest, most compact and elegantly designed bass amplifiers out there. Fully designed and built in Finland. We present you the Microtubes 700." [/quote] Marketing blurb... you need transformers the size of a baby elephant for "that sound" they are describing (valve and transistor amps) Edited January 22, 2016 by Byo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1453461429' post='2959656'] So, i take that it doesn't have a B&O power amp and PSU module. I'm curious to know if they designed a new amp section like Markbass did. Going off-topic, it seems that i'm one of the few that actually prefers class-D to old and heavy amps. The "heft" that some mention for me translates in to boominess and muddy on stages. In pub gigs the lack of sub-bass from class-D is really helpfull, it helps the bass being heard better at lower volume and doesn't mess with the mics in the drum kit. [/quote] From my perspective, it's not so much a 'heft' thing (Gaaah! I said it!) - it's more backbone. The transients, and the low mids. As an aside, it was pretty lonely in the 'There's something not quite right about the Class D' camp for a while, but there's a fair few people in here now. Maybe in a couple of generations time we'll have something at consumer level that can compete with traditional power amps. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 I don't personally notice a lot of difference, but we all notice things in our own way. However, I imagine the latest Mesa amp probably nails it better than the competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1453463324' post='2959684'] I don't personally notice a lot of difference, but we all notice things in our own way. However, I imagine the latest Mesa amp probably nails it better than the competition. [/quote] Yep, I've always said it's something that bothers some people (me for one) whereas others don't notice it. Everyone's got their own needs and tastes. I'd like to hear the Subway, but I'm not holding out much hope given that there's nothing groundbreaking in the power section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 For me class-D nails "my tone", i like a clean and natural bass tone with note-to-note definition even when playing faster lines. The low-mids have all the trouser-flapping i'll ever need on stage. I must point out that i always go through PA, even in pub gigs so i don't need to fill the venue with my rig. I think this may be the prime cause for most people going for class-A, i know a lot of bands on your side of the pond only use PA for vocals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='leroydiamond' timestamp='1453419405' post='2959468'] I have been through several micro amps over as many years. Got tired lifting heavy gear and my aching limbs were happy to sacrifice grid iron heft in favour of portability, small foot print and sheer convenience of small, light gear. Well over a year ago I pulled the trigger on the cheap as chips Kustom KXB500 class D bass amp (377 Euro). I intended to have it as a back up, but to my surprise the little thing kicked every micro I had tried right out of the ball park. It knocks out a thick, syrupy, fat tone with ease. Real heft in every note. My amp GAS in non existence since I started using this thing (other than wanting to purchase a second one). However sadly it is now out of production and therefore unavailable. Guess Kustom did not know what they had on their hands with this baby. [/quote] I have one too. I'm no longer looking for any new amp, but if anyone has a Kustom KXB, i'll take it off their hands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyclaret Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1453382024' post='2958935'] *squint* Do I detect the hand of TKS in this...? [/quote] and a touch of Bergantino, that tolex looks very similar to the good stuff on the newer range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1453464030' post='2959690'] For me class-D nails "my tone", i like a clean and natural bass tone with note-to-note definition even when playing faster lines. The low-mids have all the trouser-flapping i'll ever need on stage. I must point out that i always go through PA, even in pub gigs so i don't need to fill the venue with my rig. I think this may be the prime cause for most people going for class-A, i know a lot of bands on your side of the pond only use PA for vocals. [/quote] And I would imagine that these days a lot of PAs are powered by class D amps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1453466949' post='2959739'] And I would imagine that these days a lot of PAs are powered by class D amps... [/quote] Yep, our PA consists in two RCF ART312 tops with two dB Technologies subs (soon to be replaced by RCF subs). All class-D, loud, great sounding and very easy to carry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1453466949' post='2959739'] And I would imagine that these days a lot of PAs are powered by class D amps... [/quote] Nope... not seen many.. only Meyer, iirc. Otherwise it is baltic ply and Heavy amp racks. EAW, Nexo, Martin etc ..in a different league completely and tbh, most riders wouldn't bid down to HK etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1453466949' post='2959739'] And I would imagine that these days a lot of PAs are powered by class D amps... [/quote] Pro-level stuff won't be using the off-the-shelf modules we're discussing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1453462946' post='2959680'] From my perspective, it's not so much a 'heft' thing (Gaaah! I said it!) - it's more backbone. The transients, and the low mids. As an aside, it was pretty lonely in the 'There's something not quite right about the Class D' camp for a while, but there's a fair few people in here now. Maybe in a couple of generations time we'll have something at consumer level that can compete with traditional power amps. We'll see. [/quote] For me, I was running Thunderfunk when everyone was going Markbass. There is no way MB gets there IMO, but call it a one-off as far as comparison goes. Even when TC made their bid, the sound was there ..in a fashion, but it was still plastic. Unless you were running class D as well, you'd not have picked it up too soon apart from 'whats' different'... I have a designer friend who has looked into class D for gtrs.... and they couldn't/wouldn't get involved in something that might have dodgy figures or marketing.. so they've gone proper back end. Now, what you will see is everyone joins in on Class D from a marketing POV, when a lot of people know the horse has already bolted. These companies have belatedly seen the market sway and pitched in... but it is just more of the same. I've not come across a decent Class D..relatively speaking..for less than a £1k and I'm not seeing anyone making anything different below that. Edited January 22, 2016 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 There's plenty of great class D products out there, many with "heft" but they seem to be exclusive to the PA arena... everything in the bass amp world, seems to be derived from hi-fi products. Having been sat in front of some fairly serious 18" subs run from class D power amps, I would dispute the comment that all class D amps lack heft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skychaserhigh Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 I'm in the 'there's something not quite right about class D' camp too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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