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Barefaced. Idea / suggestion


Kevin Dean
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While I'm lieing here with a knackered back ,& looking at the Barefaced web site .I'm thinking why doesn't Alex offer the powers sub as a none powered cab ,turn it up side down with logo where the tweeter would be so it could be used under the standard BB2 ,making an even lighter version of the Big Twin II ,bring the cost down slightly of having two BB2s & why aren they 19" wide ? Must be an acoustic thing .

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[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1451652915' post='2942090']
He'd have sold at least two more 210's if he did them in 8ohm :mellow:

Apparently there are complicated reasons not to do that. :mellow:
[/quote]
That's probably because they would have 2 different range of ohm speakers made for them .
perhaps if they offered a discount if you ordered more than one cab , that might influence people to get 2 x8 ohm or 3 x 12ohm cabs ?

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Guest bassman7755

[quote name='Kevin Dean' timestamp='1451644840' post='2941971']
While I'm lieing here with a knackered back ,& looking at the Barefaced web site .I'm thinking why doesn't Alex offer the powers sub as a none powered cab ,turn it up side down with logo where the tweeter would be so it could be used under the standard BB2 ,making an even lighter version of the Big Twin II ,bring the cost down slightly of having two BB2s & why aren they 19" wide ? Must be an acoustic thing .
[/quote]

Isnt that essentially what the super compact is - a BB2 without a horn ?, they are even the same width for non-OCD inducing stackability B)

Edited by bassman7755
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[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1451659508' post='2942164']
Isnt that essentially what the super compact is - a BB2 without a horn ?, they are even the same width for non-OCD inducing stackability B)
[/quote]The super compact is shallower & according to their figures doesn't go as low .

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[quote name='Kevin Dean' timestamp='1451658300' post='2942156']
That's probably because they would have 2 different range of ohm speakers made for them .
perhaps if they offered a discount if you ordered more than one cab , that might influence people to get 2 x8 ohm or 3 x 12ohm cabs ?
[/quote]

The point is (to me) Barefaced don't make the 2x 10 in 8 ohm, or I would have bought two of them.
They make the 210 in 4ohm and 12 ohm.
One is no good to me and I'm buggered if I'm going to buy/carry three of them.
As I said, I asked Alex last year if they would do them in 8 ohm versions and was told (in a bamboozling scientific way) no.

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[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1451680268' post='2942463']
The point is (to me) Barefaced don't make the 2x 10 in 8 ohm, or I would have bought two of them.
They make the 210 in 4ohm and 12 ohm.
One is no good to me and I'm buggered if I'm going to buy/carry three of them.
As I said, I asked Alex last year if they would do them in 8 ohm versions and was told (in a bamboozling scientific way) no.
[/quote]

Two 12ohm 210 would make it 6ohm. Would it be noticeably different from two 8ohm 210s that would give a 4ohm load?

I understand that if you want to use just one cab it may be noticeable, but as a two cab solution, I doubt it.

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[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1451687593' post='2942570']Two 12ohm 210 would make it 6ohm. Would it be noticeably different from two 8ohm 210s that would give a 4ohm load?[/quote]

Exactly - it isn't! We're not going to go into production with alternate impedance versions because there isn't a good enough engineering/performance reason to justify the hassle of having to stock a whole load of extra drivers but we do have samples of our 10CR driver in lots of different impedances. If anyone wants a custom impedance One10 or Two10 then email us and we'll let you know if we have the right drivers to make what you need.

We could do a custom BB2 without the HF driver and crossover and the woofer moved to the top of the cab but the extra work involved would make it more expensive than a standard BB2. And I wouldn't want to add it to the product range because it would just create confusion - it's hard enough for bassists to work out which one of our three 1x12" cabs is right for them without adding a fourth! ;)

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Anyway with 2 X12ohm cabs you're running at 6ohms. The difference between that and 4 ohms is maybe 1db, but a lot less heat stress on the amp. You just got a fist full of extra db by using a more efficient cabinet. There are a whole bunch of comb filtering/ floor resonance/ speaker angle/ placement issues to worry about (or just don't) before 1db shows up on your tonal radar.
If you NEEEED that 1 db, then perhaps you need a bigger amp. but you don't. You really don't.

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[quote name='Merton' timestamp='1451735392' post='2942878']
Remember also that an 8 ohm cab is only 8 ohm at certain frequency/ies - it's higher than that the rest of the time. So the difference between 8, 6 and 4 is basically the number an not an awful lot else.
[/quote]
Not really. The maker's stated impedance is the [i]nominal[/i] (within a degree of accuracy) across [b]a range[/b] of frequencies. Slightly lower at lower frequencies and increasing at the high end. As a guide, the DC (no frequency) resistance of an "8ohm" driver is about 6 ohms.

The point is, that at the same frequencies that an 8 ohm driver is[i] actually[/i] 8 ohms, the 4ohm driver will be [i]actually[/i] 4 ohms. They don't cross into each other's range. They are still different. You still don't want 2 X 4ohm cabs in parallel. (buuzzzzert poof!)

On the other hand, if you're saying that the only real difference (in a solid state system) between 4, 6, or 8ohms is ego, then I completely agree. I have also been that idiot and paid the price in complexity and inflexibility. If Barefaced had made the Super 12T in 8 ohms, I'd have bitten his hand off for it. One day I might even ask about a driver switch.

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[quote name='Pbassred' timestamp='1451768464' post='2943332']

Not really. The maker's stated impedance is the [i]nominal[/i] (within a degree of accuracy) across [b]a range[/b] of frequencies. Slightly lower at lower frequencies and increasing at the high end. As a guide, the DC (no frequency) resistance of an "8ohm" driver is about 6 ohms.

The point is, that at the same frequencies that an 8 ohm driver is[i] actually[/i] 8 ohms, the 4ohm driver will be [i]actually[/i] 4 ohms. They don't cross into each other's range. They are still different. You still don't want 2 X 4ohm cabs in parallel. (buuzzzzert poof!)

On the other hand, if you're saying that the only real difference (in a solid state system) between 4, 6, or 8ohms is ego, then I completely agree. I have also been that idiot and paid the price in complexity and inflexibility. If Barefaced had made the Super 12T in 8 ohms, I'd have bitten his hand off for it. One day I might even ask about a driver switch.
[/quote]

Yeah sorry, answering topics on my phone means I don't go into huge detail so it could be misconstrued. I was just trying to point out that a nominal 6 ohms isn't going to be that much different from a nominal 4 :)

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[quote name='Pbassred' timestamp='1451768464' post='2943332']

You still don't want 2 X 4ohm cabs in parallel. (buuzzzzert poof!)

[/quote]

So I do not really want / need the full power my amp is capable of delivering at 2 ohms? (I have my fingers crossed behind my back as I type this)

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[quote name='Pbassred' timestamp='1451768464' post='2943332']Not really. The maker's stated impedance is the [i]nominal[/i] (within a degree of accuracy) across [b]a range[/b] of frequencies. Slightly lower at lower frequencies and increasing at the high end. As a guide, the DC (no frequency) resistance of an "8ohm" driver is about 6 ohms.[/quote]

At low frequencies impedance varies hugely, often going more than ten times as high as the nominal impedance. Impedance is lowest for most drivers in the low midrange, rising at higher frequencies - but if there are midrange drivers or tweeters the impedance for the cab will vary a lot through the upper mids and treble, often having its lowest points around crossover frequencies.

Impedance magnitude isn't the only thing that matters - the phase also makes a difference. A cab whose impedance phase goes strongly negative at when the impedance magnitude is low will be harder for an amp to drive. Basically the impedance number is a massive over-simplification of a three dimensional plot of impedance magnitude vs impedance phase vs frequency.

In the case of our 10CR driver, the impedance magnitude varies much less than many drivers so it's easy to drive. The impedance phase never goes strongly negative which makes it even easier. And it's very high sensitivity, so it doesn't need much power to get loud - again making it easier to drive.

We can be pretty laid back about what people hook it up and how low the nominal impedance could be claimed to be with certain configurations because it's very amp friendly and you'd have to be doing pretty stupid things and running well below your amp's minimum load before problems occur.

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Guest bassman7755

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1451850910' post='2944059']
Impedance magnitude isn't the only thing that matters - the phase also makes a difference. A cab whose impedance phase goes strongly negative at when the impedance magnitude is low will be harder for an amp to drive. Basically the impedance number is a massive over-simplification of a three dimensional plot of impedance magnitude vs impedance phase vs frequency.

In the case of our 10CR driver, the impedance magnitude varies much less than many drivers so it's easy to drive. The impedance phase never goes strongly negative which makes it even easier. And it's very high sensitivity, so it doesn't need much power to get loud - again making it easier to drive.
[/quote]

Sounds like you talking about "power factor" here, are you saying that these drivers effectively have a higher power factor (and thus lower current draw for a given real power output) ?.

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