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grumpyguts

Sax player dilemma

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Back in April (after many years not playing) I joined a "lets have a jam" band - after one 4 hour session a month since we have learned a few tunes and generally had a good time.

We have a chap who plays Sax and tries to sing - clearly not at the same time! To be fair he isn't too good at the singing and the Sax playing is a bit dodge. I am no Bass god so it's not something I would bring up as an issue - anyway we are just having fun...

However, last month we found a female vocalist who has been in bands, done gigs etc. This is a good thing cos I am keen to move forwards as are our guitar & drums.

After our first session with the new found singer she is clearly happy - thinks we are better then the two other bands she is working with - god knows what they sound like....Anyway, she is keen to put a set together and no doubt aim to get gigs; bang on as far as I am concerned. By the way, at the session Mr Sax player couldn't stay long and didn't do much.

A few days after the session she sent an email to our guitarist saying she knew a sax player who is keen to join us, I believe he will be at our next session on Jan 10th. As far as I can see nothing has been said to our sax player. I can't think of anything worse than turning up and finding another bloke doing "your" thing.

Should I say something to him before if the others haven't? I am keen to remain with this lot cos it's going in the exact direction I had hoped when it started.

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These things evolve like this..which is why I don't do them as a friends things... so you need to find a way to broach this.
Either upfront or don't invite him along..but it will come out at some point anyway.

I think he will have an inkling to what is likely to happen, so you may as well bite the bullet, explain it to him and let things unfold.
He may leave or he may stay, and you find a use for both.
But when bands progress, you all have to be on the same page... and if you gig for money everyone has to be worth their money
in some way.

This is working bands and it is dog eat dog.

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[quote name='Bloc Riff Nut' timestamp='1450977320' post='2937595']
Get it out in the open as soon as possible and just be honest. That's all Most of us ask from each other.
A bit of a poor do that nothing has been said...
[/quote]

+1 Should be easy, really - after all, you've only been spending an average of 8.57 minutes a day on this band. It's not as if anyone is making a big commitment or has sacrificed much to do it.

Edited by discreet

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Someone needs to man up and tell the bloke before he walks into this.

No issues with getting rid of him for the reasons above but to not tell him and allow that to happen is a poor show and unnecessary


Les

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This is why I am generally an anti social misery - it avoids all this interpersonal stuff, I can do without it.

Sax player has noted on FB that he is struggling to get the hour a day practice he knows he needs to do as the old fella in the flat below doesn't like the noise - this suggests he does have some motivation to stick with it.

Both the Guitarist and Drummer know Mr Sax from before the band - they asked him along initially. I got in via Join My Band.

The view I expressed to the other band members was that we should tell Sax player that we are now taking the whole thing more seriously (fairly evident due to the recruitment of a proper vocalist) and ask him if he feels up to more commitment. I need to follow this up.

If I was in his position I would want to be given the opportunity to sharpen up a bit. I know it's not been a big commitment up to this point but to be dumped just as it might get interesting isn't something I would be happy with.

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[quote name='grumpyguts' timestamp='1450980182' post='2937633']
If I was in his position I would want to be given the opportunity to sharpen up a bit. I know it's not been a big commitment up to this point but to be dumped just as it might get interesting isn't something I would be happy with.
[/quote]

In that case, Mr Sax really should be told that there will be another sax player at the next session. Or it will at once be obvious to him that it was arranged behind his back and the situation will be awkward to say the least. It's hardly likely to improve his playing, either.

Edited by discreet

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It isn't your fault he isn't ready for the situation...
Sharpen up a bit implies he is just a bit rusty... and I get the impression he is quite a way off the mark..?
Anyway, new sax player may set the bar...

But sure, put him in the picture, but no garauntees... he may walk. That is just the way the game is.

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Another Sax player may be the motivation he needs to up his game...might learn a few tricks from the new saxman too.

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Someone has to say something before the event. Put yourself in his shoes and imagine how you'd feel turning up to find another bass player plugged in and ready to go. Not cool and karma would be waiting.

If its just a jam thing why not invite them all along. Or one at a time?

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Looks like your new singer has decided you're getting a new sax player and will come up with a set list. Who will she out next?

Just saying

;)

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I'm with No.6 here - without intending to sound harsh, and unless I missed a bit, I don't think she was asked to find a new sax - and her doing introducing her friend has created your problem. You guys are doing the understandable thing of agreeing to what the singer wants, as 1) she's just turned up and 2) you rate her and want to keep her vocal services. I would say though, the way you speak of the incumbent's skillset suggests you were already thinking of dropping him off anyway.

Speaking from experience, tell the incumbent guy what the score is, and give him the chance to come along and make a go of it. Oh, and make sure he hasn't just laid out on a new sax to play in the band with. That was awkward.

Edited by Tonteee

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If it was me I would:

(1) Contact the others and suggest that you hold off with the new Sax until you have [b]all [/b]discussed it as a band
(2) Have a chat with the guitar and drums to decide if you want to keep your current sax player, want to get rid or fancy giving both a go if the sound would work that way
(3) Speak to the current sax player and explain your situation.
(4) Then and only then think about asking extra people along

If I was in his situation and just turned up to find someone else doing my thing I would be all kinds of furious with my band-mates. Changes might be necessary and no doubt it'll upset the sax player somewhat but there is a world of difference between being asked to leave for good reason and being pushed out by a newcomer.

Edited by Naetharu

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I contacted Guitar & Drums earlier this evening letting them know I didn't feel happy not communicating the issue to Sax man. Latest response suggests we will talk about it on the 10th without new Sax man being in attendance. So that's fair enough.

The influence of the singer dosen't bother me - so long as I am not on the boot list..She wasn't asked to find a new Sax player - I guess she just mentioned to the situation to her Sax player friend etc. She has brought some useful experience and a decent voice plus we get along ok. My aim is to work hard on the stuff we are playing and be as good as poss and hence keep my spot.

I really don't know if the current Sax player is up to it, quite likely not, from a playing perspective I would not be bothered if we replaced him. However he has to be given the opportunity to rise to the occasion. After all we are still in the process of getting stuff together I am sure we all have room for improvement.

Edited by grumpyguts

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[quote name='Number6' timestamp='1450989379' post='2937737']
Looks like your new singer has decided you're getting a new sax player and will come up with a set list. Who will she out next?

Just saying

;)
[/quote]
This, sounds like the start of a take over bid. Be careful.

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It's certainly an awkward, and potentially an unpleasant situation.

Personally, I'm pretty rubbish at this sort of thing, I prefer to just play for bands, rather than joining them. I would absolutely hate to be sax number 1, and find that I'm out of the band. He obviously seems to enjoy it, even though he has other things on.

It seems to me at least, that the band isn't really a 'serious' thing, though I may be wrong. So could it not be more of a collective of musicians rather than a band ? So whoever can make it to a rehearsal or gig does, and if they can't, then they can't. The 2 saxes can work things out between them, as to who plays what, and when.

It is Christmas too :).

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i am not bothered about the singer taking over, so long as I remain on the Bass.

Us original members could have continued to fart around once a month and achieve nothing, I know the drummer is up for more and so am I - she is giving us a shove in the right direction.

Her reply to our add on Join my Band indicated that she had been intending to put her own band together, I had a fair idea given her previous experience something like this was possible.

The situation with the sax player was more troubling to me as I didn't want to see him treated badly - I think I have sorted that. It will be interesting to see what happens..

I have a list of 20 tracks I need to get sorted by the 10th.. Happy Christmas!

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If it started up as a thing where people just come along when they can and play what they can then multiple instruments is not an issue - even bass. One of my bands formed organically out of this setup - multiple drummists is always interesting and bass works if you're both sensitive. 5 guitarists was a bit much though.

Out of the chaos a core formed and became a band. A couple of other bands grew up out of other members of the collective part getting their game on.

At this point it's just another musician coming along to jam. Have a private facebook page where you organise sessions, who's going and invite new people who are interested to it so they can come when they feel.

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[quote name='spike' timestamp='1450977739' post='2937598']
Find a trumpet player and you'll have yourselves a horn section
[/quote]

or a good fight :ph34r: :gas:

Edited by steve-bbb

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If she was looking to put together a new band you are going to have to bend to her...
as she'll probably do it anyway.

However, this does rather mark the card that the singer have the wherewithall to get what she wants
...and you should be looking at whether you can and want to work that way.

For me, it is all business so it wouldn't worry me.... but if she has just joined and invited someone else
, this might set a precedent..like she is taking over.
None of this is so bad IF that is what you want, but you might want to test her by saying the original members
need to talk the sax issue over..you can invite her too...to see how she operates and what other little surprises
she might be capable of.

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[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1451044337' post='2937981']
...you might want to test her by saying the original members need to talk the sax issue over... you can invite her too... to see how she operates and what other little surprises she might be capable of...
[/quote]

It would certainly be useful to see what her intentions are and decide if you'd want to continue under those circumstances.

Edited by discreet

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[quote name='grumpyguts' timestamp='1451032181' post='2937897']
i am not bothered about the singer taking over, so long as I remain on the Bass.

Us original members could have continued to fart around once a month and achieve nothing, I know the drummer is up for more and so am I - she is giving us a shove in the right direction.

Her reply to our add on Join my Band indicated that she had been intending to put her own band together, I had a fair idea given her previous experience something like this was possible.

The situation with the sax player was more troubling to me as I didn't want to see him treated badly - I think I have sorted that. It will be interesting to see what happens..

I have a list of 20 tracks I need to get sorted by the 10th.. Happy Christmas!
[/quote]

They came for the sax player and I said nothing because I wasn't a sax player...
Then they came for.........


You get the idea.

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