Do you REALLY need a drummer..?

[wateroftyne]

A couple of my bands gig more often than not without a drummer. Generally, the audience come to terms with the fact there's no drummer there pretty quickly. We just do lots with dynamics and make sure it still swings and rocks a bit without a kit behind it.

That said, the music can handle it. it's not like we're metal or anything.

[Phil Starr]

I've gone out as a duo with just guitar and bass, doing covers. There are songs that work and some that don't we try and avoid the ones that don't.

In a way it is more fun, you have to be creative with arrangements and you have plenty to do in every song if you want to keep it interesting for the audience. That said we are looking to add a small kick drum and a pedal operated tambourine fairly soon, but percussion doesn't always have to be a kit.

We've also met a duo who went out with a miniature kit and guitar. That worked really well too and the mini kit didn't take up too much space neither was it too loud.

More to the point there is a whole circuit out there that a full blooded band can't play. The venues are too small and/or a band are too loud. Even if the fee is smaller your cut is usually bigger and you aren't carting huge amounts of gear so set up and knock down are quick.

[ben4343]

I play as often as time allows with a very good acoustic guitarist, who manages melody, rhythm, percussion and singing all at the same time (thinking about it, it's lucky we're friends, otherwise I doubt he'd bother with me!). There is no room for drums in our duo.

Two of my favourite bands are bluegrass (Old Crow Medicine show, and Deep Chatham), and neither use a drummer. As has been mentioned above in this thread, they utilise slap double bass and rhythmic acoustic guitar, which to my ears sounds fantastic; again, no room for drums there.

I think we are all in agreement that, genre-dependant, a drummer isn't always needed, and sometimes they are vital: is this not true of any instrument though?

[Jonnyboy Rotten]

I think it is very possible not to have a drummer. A 'non-conformist band line-up can be something of a talking point.

On the other hand - I dare you to post that OP on a drummer's forum!

[rOB]

Some alternative percussion options discussed in this [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/167764-alternatives-to-drums-as-percussion-in-a-band-setting/page__st__60__p__2647305__hl__alternatives%20to%20drums__fromsearch__1#entry2647305"]thread[/url].

[CamdenRob]

To be honest there are just as many generes of music which don't require a bass. A lot of the downtuned metal stuff doesn't really have any need for bass guitar IMO as most of that frequency range is already covered by the guitars.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1449483453' post='2923820']
To be honest there are just as many genres of music which don't require a bass. A lot of the down-tuned metal stuff doesn't really have any need for bass guitar IMO as most of that frequency range is already [s]covered[/s] smothered by the guitars.
[/quote]

Fixed.

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1449483903' post='2923825']
Fixed.
[/quote]

ha... you're not wrong.

[Lw.]

Of course it depends on genre with more acoustic based music being easier to do without drums but computer generated drum sounds are getting so good now I think it's possible for almost any genre.

I play in a metal/hardcore band and the drums on a lot of our demo's are actually just programmed in (they're just for sharing ideas/song learning) but most people that hear them can't tell. Many heavier metal bands than us use triggers in the drums so the FoH sound comes from a processor.

I'd have no qualms about doing a different band in the future & doing gigs with a laptop plugged into the PA for the drums.

[dlloyd]

I dabble in gypsy jazz as a guitarist, and drummers are rare within the genre, with the rhythm guitar style having evolved to emulate a brushed snare sound.

Here's a couple of good examples:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOC-xZOWFnc[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbkZbEsQIWY[/media]

Edited December 7, 2015 by dlloyd

[Beedster]

What I most like about playing without a drummer is that the whole band have to become far more rhythmically/percussively aware and tight, which means they have to listen to each other more than is often the case when simply staying with the thud and snap of a kick/snare. I play DB at the left of the angle to variously 45-90 degrees to the stage so that I make strong eye contact, and they can also see what my hands are doing even if they can't hear all that well, which occasionally happens. If you hear us recorded, you get the feel there's a drum or at least percussion in there somewhere, but it's just the sound of a lot of instruments playing tightly together.

[discreet]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1449488573' post='2923881']
What I most like about playing without a drummer is that the whole band have to become far more rhythmically/percussively aware and tight, which means they have to listen to each other more than is often the case when simply staying with the thud and snap of a kick/snare... ...If you hear us recorded, you get the feel there's a drum or at least percussion in there somewhere, but it's just the sound of a lot of instruments playing tightly together.
[/quote]

Very good! As I have long suspected, being a tight and together band is not about simply following the drums. A good band will sound tight and play in time with or without drums. It's not enough to leave rhythmic duties to the drummer, it's the responsibility of the whole band.

And if you get a particularly crap drummer of the type that merely 'plays along' rather than taking that responsibility, you have a very sloppy dog's breakfast indeed. Everything should flow naturally - as a bass player, you shouldn't have to push and pull the timing to keep everything afloat, it's very tiring and makes the whole business unpleasant when it should be fun. Which is why playing with a competent drummer is such a pleasure.

Edited December 7, 2015 by discreet

[Beedster]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1449489166' post='2923889']
Very good! As I have long suspected, being a tight and together band is not about simply following the drums. A good band will sound tight and play in time with or without drums. It's not enough to leave rhythmic duties to the drummer, it's the responsibility of the whole band.

And if you get a particularly crap drummer of the type that merely 'plays along' rather than taking that responsibility, you have a very sloppy dog's breakfast indeed. Everything should flow naturally - as a bass player, you shouldn't have to push and pull the timing to keep everything afloat, it's very tiring and makes the whole business unpleasant when it should be fun. Which is why playing with a competent drummer is such a pleasure.
[/quote]

Agreed, but a lot of people really do need convincing of the above, many preferring to play in a sloppy band with drums that a tight one without. For many bands there's also a big difference between rehearsing and/or 'gigging without our drummer' (subtext 'it won't be as tight as it normally is but we'll/you'll have to live with it'), and 'we don't have a drummer' (subtext 'this is us and as good as we get so we all have to make it as tight as possible'). In the former scenario bands often assume that when the drummer returns things will become naturally/organically tighter, which is of course not always the case. Personally, I'm loving the new role, I eyeball the guys the message "OK, we're taking it up", get their attention and up it goes, no need to go through the third party (drummer), or have it happen drummer-led without any warming whatsoever, which was the problem in the old days!