Gigging and the costs - what would you do in this situation?

[TimR]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1449583406' post='2924838']


I get that....or rather I think it is another example of the U.S working cheap...
just like waitressing and tips.. and how they need the latter to make up their wage.

If I had to play 4 hrs so the bar could come and go as they pleased and you had 2 or 3 versions
of an audience, I'd think I wasn't doing enough to keep them...

However, 4 hrs of music is just not practical in a bar and a 2 hr attention span is tops for an attentive
audience.

Also, that period would dictate you'd need 2-3 lead vocals and it is hard enough getting one decent one..
let alone 3.

I don't think I'd be doing bar gigs in the U.S... it just wouldn't be my idea of fun...
[/quote]

We're digressing a bit here but in the UK we are used to a pretty set format. Pubs stop serving food at 9pm and that's when the band's start. People go out, eat, watch a band, go home.

When I was in Detroit, the bars tended to serve food all night and the bands would easily be playing from 9 until 1 while people ate and came in and out.

It's a different culture.

It's also pretty rare to hear any light and shade from a pub band doing two 45min sets. They'll put on a high energy too loud intensive show. Compare that to a wedding band where your first half an hour would be easing the audience into it after they'd had a meal and the evening guests arrive. Then you might have 10mins in the middle of the last set for slow numbers. Etc.

Edited December 8, 2015 by TimR

[JTUK]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1449584810' post='2924863']
We're digressing a bit here but in the UK we are used to a pretty set format. Pubs stop serving food at 9pm and that's when the band's start. People go out, eat, watch a band, go home.

When I was in Detroit, the bars tended to serve food all night and the bands would easily be playing from 9 until 1 while people ate and came in and out.

It's a different culture.

It's also pretty rare to hear any light and shade from a pub band doing two 45min sets. They'll put on a high energy too loud intensive show. Compare that to a wedding band where your first half an hour would be easing the audience into it after they'd had a meal and the evening guests arrive. Then you might have 10mins in the middle of the last set for slow numbers. Etc.
[/quote]

It is a problem when the staple fare is 80's rock......as it is around here but then pubs get what they deserve too.

I'm not that fussed about working too hard if the audience didn't come to see 'us'...
and I wouldn't want to be playing whilst the whole pub was eating..

I've done plenty of background musak gigs but they are my idea of money, not fun.
I don't much like the idea of gigging and being an afterthought, for sure.

I'd say there is NO WAY a band would hold people's attention for 4 hrs.. so I'm glad I don't have to try and attempt to.

Yep..don't fancy that sort of bar work.
I'll FB my mate in Florida... and see what he thinks...but I know he loves playing and being up there in the spotlight
and he still can't hack it...

Even his corporate gigs are the same sort of hrs...but they pay a lot more money.

Why doesn't anyone say..as you would here... we play for 2 x1 hrs max and our fee is..£xxxx.
Take it or leave it..?

Edited December 8, 2015 by JTUK

[blue]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1449573933' post='2924700']
Yes but it's a different environment.

I've played for 4 hours, a matinee and an evening show. That's pretty close to what Blue does, the audience don't stay for the whole four hours.
[/quote]

No,and we obviously don't expect people to stay for all 3 sets.

Over a 4 hour time period the you get one crowd leaving and another coming in.In some bars the place won't get really packed until Midnight when the 3rd set starts.

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='Number6' timestamp='1449574278' post='2924709']
I wonder what the comparisons of pay are between a US 4 hour gig and a UK 2 x 45 min gig actually are?
[/quote]

The top of the scale for bar gigs is $500.00. And with bottles of certain beers going for $6.00-$7.00 it's easy for the owner to cover it.

I think another difference is, your pubs can be in residential zoned areas. Our bars are in business zones only.

Blue

Edited December 8, 2015 by blue

[JTUK]

£333 by today's $/£ rate.

I'd say pub work here is £250 standard ... £350 is doing well and above that
needs a garaunteed stormer of a night.

Pubs will pay more, but need to pretty damn sure they'll make it back AND some.

One or two of the Best music pubs will put on ticketed band events and I think this
will be more the way pub music will go..providing they have space and a stage etc etc
as you'll need to get 70-100 ppl in, and more.

Edited December 8, 2015 by JTUK

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1449606585' post='2925186']
Why doesn't anyone say..as you would here... we play for 2 x1 hrs max and our fee is..£xxxx.
Take it or leave it..?
[/quote]

Because the answer would be, 'I'll leave it'.

[JTUK]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1449607888' post='2925215']
Because the answer would be, 'I'll leave it'.
[/quote]

Here or the states?

I think a good act will get what they ask for... if the buyer doesn't think they are worth it, of course,
they wont pay it. but they will if they do.

Recent pub fees around here have been £350, £600 and £1k plus...
The last two charged on the door... £350-500 isn't unheard of from wet sales alone.

[blue]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1449583406' post='2924838']

I don't think I'd be doing bar gigs in the U.S... it just wouldn't be my idea of fun...[/quote]

4 hours is our standard and it works out just fine in US.

For me the 4 hour gig is a blast, I love it.

Blue

Edited December 8, 2015 by blue

[mcnach]

[quote name='Japhet' timestamp='1449340800' post='2922788']
Does it cost you to rehearse? It usually does, so I'd view it as a good PR opportunity that costs a bit of rehearsal money.
[/quote]


This.

It may end up costing a bit of money, but you can view it as a rehearsal in a proper live environment, with an audience that you would not attract to your own gig at this point in time. Nothing better to be noticed and make fans than playing gigs. All kinds of gigs. My band is doing reasonably well at the moment and it's been mostly through networking, making friends with other bands, playing at their events while they play at ours, and essentially playing as much as we could. Eventually we can be a little picky about what gigs we play and our fee etc, but if nobody knows you yet the best way to be seen is at gigs that other bands who have already enough followers organise.

Do it, and have fun!

[mcnach]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1449408197' post='2923226']
Sorry Dad - disagree - if you are forking out money to do a gig you are paying to play regardless of how you define "self-promotion" - it has nothing to do with buying your own instruments etc. The equation is simple:

We are being paid to do a gig = not paying to play
We have to front the money to play the gig = paying to play
[/quote]

Have you ever put on a show yourself? Who pays to rent the venue? You do! You pay.
Of course, if done well you will make money by selling tickets and/or drinks, whatever the arrangement is. The point is someone has to pay some money before the event takes place. Sometimes that someone is a promoter. Sometimes the bands cut the middle man and become the promoters. This case sounds like the latter.

A new originals band is not going to start out with a huge following. Piggy-backing onto another more established band sounds like a good idea to me and the fastest and cheapest way to get gigs, be seen, and hopefully get people to notice you and start coming to your own gigs.

[Toddy]

Hi guys, it's been a while, so be gentle, haven't read every reply, and some great points here, all bands have to be treated like a business, and you have to have an aim, which, for most, is to play live, have a following, earn some cash, which as a start up band usually needs to be invested back into the project, and have a great time, any business has start up costs, and if your seriously going for it, and you need to get on the scene, the odd forty quid could be an investment, certainly agree that it should not be the norm, but until you have a name and some followers, you really aren't in a position to throw your weight around, all us old timers have been in this position, some you get right, some you lose, you learn on your feet, at this level seem bands that have got paid expenses etc, and then put three times back over the bar, it's all relative,,,over time, and if your guys are entertaining and want to take it seriously, then that becomes a different issue, hope this helps,

[JTUK]

When we were young and couldn't get gigs...pub work was unheard of, iirc..and it just didn't enter our head as an option, we
always put on our own shows.

Don't remember making a LOT out of it, but we learnt a lot.

The one thing I do recall...is we had no security, and te village halls were rammed.
We invited a pub into the do the bar and keep the business.
We made 'enough' on the tickets to do it again.

What I do that now... NOT IN A MILLION... and pubs are easier ways to turn-over
money.
Nowadays, you have health and safety and security as extra costs..and the chances are
that the security heavies would make more per head than the band.

But...as regards the OP... if someone is doing the major legwork and it is just £40 to you guys, then
why not..??

If you haven't done this before, you'll learn loads and that in itself is worth a lot, IMO.

[TimR]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1449658685' post='2925589']
When we were young and couldn't get gigs...pub work was unheard of, iirc..and it just didn't enter our head as an option, we
always put on our own shows.

Don't remember making a LOT out of it, but we learnt a lot.

The one thing I do recall...is we had no security, and te village halls were rammed.
We invited a pub into the do the bar and keep the business.
We made 'enough' on the tickets to do it again.

What I do that now... NOT IN A MILLION... and pubs are easier ways to turn-over
money.
Nowadays, you have health and safety and security as extra costs..and the chances are
that the security heavies would make more per head than the band.

But...as regards the OP... if someone is doing the major legwork and it is just £40 to you guys, then
why not..??

If you haven't done this before, you'll learn loads and that in itself is worth a lot, IMO.
[/quote]

If it's a village hall, ticketed event to 'friends' and family, bring your own beer, then H&S and security aren't required on a full scale professional level. It's effectively a private party.

I ran a few like that in the 80s as an 18 year old, the age for hiring halls is probably a bit older and the deposit might be a lot higher now. It's not impossible.

If you're hiring a social club the bar and security should come with it.

Edited December 9, 2015 by TimR