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urgent setup help needed!


Funky Dunky
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Sterling Sub Ray 4, was playing perfectly, but over the last week something changed. I didn't adjust a thing on the bass, but the action was noticeably higher than before - I'm going to put it down to a change in temperature affecting the neck.

I'm recording on Saturday, and I want to use this bass, so I decided to deal with the issue. I began by lowering the saddles a quarter turn. More playable, yes, but with bad fretbuzz above the 12th fret. Unacceptable. Right, I'll adjust the truss rod a quarter turn and let it sit for a couple of hours. Better, but still not as low as it was. Small adjustment to saddles. Immediate buzz. Raise them back up the nip I had taken it dow. Give the truss a tiny tiny nip.

Erm......the action is now about half a centimetre. How is that even possible??

What did I do wrong, and how do I fix it? I need to undo this nightmare before Saturday, so if anybody can help, please help!

I can post pics if required so you can see the current string height and saddle height.

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It sounds like you have been adjusting the truss rod the wrong direction at some point in the setup session. If the relief had increased you needed to turn the rod clockwise.

In future don't adjust the saddles if you suspect the problem is weather induced (saddles will not change with temp/humidity). The relief is the only thing that has changed, just a quarter turn on the truss rod (clockwise!) would have done it by the sound of it.

Start by getting your relief correct, then adjust the saddles from there.

Edited by Manton Customs
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[quote name='Manton Customs' timestamp='1448322566' post='2914537']
It sounds like you have been adjusting the truss rod the wrong direction at some point in the setup session. If the relief had increased you needed to turn the rod clockwise.

In future don't adjust the saddles if you suspect the problem is weather induced (saddles will not change with temp/humidity). The relief is the only thing that has changed, just a quarter turn on the truss rod (clockwise!) would have done it by the sound of it.

Start by getting your relief correct, then adjust the saddles from there.
[/quote]

Yes indeed and if the action ever changes all of a sudden it is normally due to temperature etc. In that case it's a question of checking and adjusting the relief.
Here is a little guide I wrote before which should get it back into decent spec.

Here is an easy way to set up a bass, with household tools that should give you a very playable bass and a pretty standard setup.
Tools need are a 4mm allen key, a 2.5 mm allen key and a 2mm allen key. Also a small allen key for the bridge saddle adjustment. Finally a standard business card like the ones from a taxi company and NOT! a plastic credit card etc they are too thick.

Of course if you can invest in the correct tools but this method is fine for getting a bass in good playing condition, for someone with limited tools.

First tune your bass normally then fret at the first fret and then with your elbow of your right arm hold down the e string on the last fret. This is so you can check the relief of the neck, place the business card corner first in between the 7th fret of the E string while its still held down at the first and last fret. It should slide in nicely if it doesn't fit in as the gap is too small then the neck is too straight and needs more relief, if it fits in but there is also a gap the neck has too much relief (too bent). the card should just fit in there nicely maybe a very slight drag.
Business cards tend to be around .010 - .015" in size which is around about the average in most factory specs for relief. If you tighten the truss rod, turning it right it will make the gap smaller, left for increasing the gap. This is of course while your looking at the nut right on, if your holding the bass normally then tightening looks like your going left and vice versa!. Assuming the truss rod access is in the headstock.
Ok so turn the allen key small turns at a time, then check the relief as above, remember each time you tighten or loosen the truss rod you must put the A string back and re tune all the strings so you get an accurate reading of the relief. Its time consumming and can sometimes be a pain in the bum but has to be done right.

Once you have the relief set, then we adjust the bridge saddle to alter the final string action (height).

There are a two different areas to measure the string height at the 12th and 17th fret i suggest if you play hard we go for the measurements at the 12th if you play lighter the 17th fret. There is also of course the fact nearly everyone likes a different string height but, 2.5mm - 2mm is about standard. To measure the height get your 2.5mm allen key and i will assume you have chosen to measure from the 12th fret. and without fretting the string measure the height of the E string from top of the fret to the bottom, and adjust at the bridge saddle so again the allen key slides nicely in and out with very slight drag. Make sure the bridge saddle is level it does not need to be angled, also while taking measurements make sure the bass is in relativly the same position you play, as necks move slights amounts at different angles. Ok So once the E is at 2.5mm you can set the A, D and G in this way the final G string should be 2mm. So maybe E and A could be 2.5mm and D and G 2mm in height from the top if the 12th fret to the bottom of the string.
And again after every single small movement of the strings you make at the bridge every time before the height is rechecked it need to be put back into tune.

The bass other than now needing to be intonated should be in very reasonable playing condition. If you dont have a 2.5mm allen key a 3/32" one gives you about 2.4mm. Feel free to set the string height higher or lower, but using allen keys or even drill bits do a good job of measurements. 4mm is the heights action that could be considered playable, under 2mm is low but the lower you go the more buzzing you might get if you hit the strings hard.

Buzzing from frets 1 to 7 indicate too little relief, buzzing in the higher frets indicate to low an action saddle height, buzzing all over might indicate just that your playing too hard for the setup.

I could write a full on essay about various other set up problems and remedies. Watch setup videos, read my little guide and hopefully it will all make sense. Hope what ive written helps.

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I think you need to go back to basics and start a setup from scratch, you may have adjusted the saddles when it was neck relief that needed adjustment and made the situation worse.....or similar........

There are good set up tutorials on the net if you search

http://www2.fender.com/en-GB/support/articles/bass-guitar-setup-guide/


http://www.talkbass.com/threads/all-basic-setup-questions-answered-here.125382/

Have a check round the whole instrument, are the neck bolts tight (I'm assuming a bolt on neck, if a neck thru, you might be there a while!!) is the bridge still secure on the body?

Its unlikely that the nut has suddenly become and issue, so I would first check the neck relief and adjust as necessary, some basses need the string tension slackening first, also check if you have a single acting or double acting truss rod....ypur adjustment may have increased relief rather than decreasing....

Then check saddle height.......

Unless you have messed with anything recently I cant think of anything else that could affect playability suddenly if it was OK before the issue......

Good luck!

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I'd not adjust anything to begin with. Leave your bass in a room with a neutral temperature and allow it to settle for 24 hours. Then go back and check the neck relief, then when that's right, adjust your saddle height.

Then, look at the places you are keeping your guitar and see if they are susceptible to changes in temperature (i.e. a room with the radiator off, in a garage, kept in the car etc)

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Thanks very much to all who have replied, and in such detail! I will revisit the issue tonight and follow the steps outlined above. I'm mad at myself because this was avoidable. Firstly, I should never have left my bass out of its gig bag, and secondly I should never have messed with the damn saddles!

I will post my results later. Pray for me.

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If I was in this position I'd be inclined to get the relief right first, I do this by following the Fender bass setup guide for ALL my basses. Use the string as a straight edge and if you don't have a feeler gauge handy use a business card to check the gap. You can also hold the E string down at the 1st and 12th frets and check to see if there's a gap between the string and the 4th to the 8th frets. Hold the G string down at the 1st and the 8th frets and check for a gap at the 4th fret. You can only really check/adjust the action when you have the relief right.

http://www2.fender.com/en-GB/support/articles/bass-guitar-setup-guide/

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[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1448482466' post='2915844']
Yes sir, every last one of them is tight.

I have been able to improve it somewhat by [b]loosening[/b] the truss rod,, leaving it overnight, then tightening it up a bit today. Still not where it was, so I will give it another quarter turn in a few hours and see if it helps.
[/quote]

If your problem is still too much relief you should have done the opposite. Tightening the rod removes relief. Think of it as if you were doing up a screw, counter clockwise loosens, clockwise tightens....tightening straightens the bow of the neck therefore shortening the distance between fret and string at the middle frets.

Focus on getting one part right before moving onto the next, that one part is the truss rod :). Also you really don't need to wait hours between adjustments, especially as you're on a deadline, get it as close as you can then give it time to settle.before finalising if necessary (often its not). If you don't force anything you won't do any damage.

Edit: I should read what I quote more carefully :o, I see you have tightened it! Could you explain the current issue...what happens when you tighten the rod? Does the relief reduce?

Edited by Manton Customs
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[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1448527378' post='2916076']
Yes, but in simple terms, the strings are still too far away from the fretboard, and the truss is geting stiff so I don't want to tighten any more.. I will post pics soon, maybe it will paint a clearer pic of my problem.
[/quote]

Truss rod is used to set relief (the bend in the neck) and not the action (string height). As in my guide above first set the relief with the truss rod then set the string height with the bridge saddles. So just because you have the truss rod set a certain way it doesn't mean that the string height will be good you must set string height at the bridge.

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Hi everybody newbie here post wise..hope u don't mind.
All great advice so far but if I may.
First things first.....slacken all the strings right off..then slacken the truss rod right off (turn it left as u look at it) then slacken off the neck bolts and then re-tighten neck bolts then turn TR to the right until u can just feel resistance then stop, then tune strings to pitch and then do ur neck relief stuff. You will then know that everything is where it should be.

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Thanks to everyone for advice. I slackened the truss rod off, left it overnight and then set the relief to my liking. A little tweaking at the saddles and it was back to how I like it (well - as near as dammit). Took it to my mate's to record and he asked for a wee go of it, and commented on how easy it was to play. Job done!

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if you're somewhere near stevenage, i could have set your bass up for you. 😀

http://basschat.co.uk/topic/273763-urgent-setup-help-needed/page__pid__2921359#entry2921359

[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1448364780' post='2914721']
Ayrshire in Scotland. A wee town called Beith, about 12 miles from Paisley.
[/quote]

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