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What is the point of 200w amps


bonzodog
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Forgive me if this is a daft question but i have often wondered it especially now we have small class D amps.
I appreciate watts is not a good way of measuring volume but think its clear most 500w amps would be louder than 200w regardless of manufacturer.
What i am getting at is its generally accepted 500w amps are loud enough for pub gigs without PA support but smaller 200w amps are hit and miss as to whether they are loud enough depending on venue size, genre etc. Therefore why take a gamble and not just buy a 500w amp? My LH500 on level 1 is quiet enough for me to use at home so no need for a 200w amp at home either.
May be it just comes down to price but usually a 500w version of a 200w amp is not that more and with class D amps they are all the same size and weight.
Be interesting to hear others opinions.

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Oh dear, another what is watt.....

Volume and watt are a dangerous combination as it is very easy to start comparing apples with oranges.

200 watt RMS with an efficient cab will do fine in most settings. If we are talking full tube 200 watts with an efficient cab, this would melt your face.

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Personally I think the amount of power lots of people use for pub gigs these day is ludicrous.
Back when I was gigging regularly and going to see lots of live local bands in the late 80's/early 90's nobody used anything over 150 watts for bass & I cannot recall anybody ever being too quiet.

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All about style, no way I'd even manage band practise with an average 200w rms amp regardless of how amazing the cab it was going into was. But for quieter stuff that'd give you pretty much unlimited head room. How much bottom end you use you use effects how much you can get out an amp massively too.

Do get a bit confused about the existance of big 50w practise amps and the like, but if I lived somewhere where I could get away with practising with an amp that big I certainly would. Other then very quiet acoustic gigs it seems like it's overkill for practising and nowhere near enough for a gig, but I'm sure there are people that have some use for them.

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I had a GK MB200 for a while. Astonishing thing. Put through a pair of Barefaced cabs (so as to get 4 Ohms) it was plenty loud enough for any pub gig ... still not sure why I sold it. :rolleyes:

I now have an Aguilar Tonehammer 350, which is obviously bigger than a 200W. On t'other hand I've yet to get the Master volume up to 12 o'clock.

Cue posts about non-linear control knobs ...

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I have a TC-Electronic BG250 combo, and have done 25 gigs this year, mostly pubs, a couple of outdoor events. In the outdoor events the bass has gone through the PA.

I have never got close to running out of volume, and if I did, I would be looking at getting others to turn down, especially in a pub. I have never found a need for anything bigger, although obviously there is always a want!
But yes, I have seen some pub acts in pubs where i left the pub because its too loud.

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A powerful amp running at low volume will sound easy/unstrained. Much better tone/more headroom. Most amps are over rated anyway - a 1khz test tone through an amp into an 8 ohm resistor ain't the same as a complex musical signal into a reactive load like a speaker.

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[quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1447089978' post='2904762']
I appreciate watts is not a good way of measuring volume but think its clear most 500w amps would be louder than 200w
[/quote]By 4dB to be precise, which isn't worth the bother. As equally valid a question is what is the point of 500w amps? If I manufactured amps I'd make the size differential between models at four times the power rating, say 50w, 200w, 800w.

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[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1447095674' post='2904850']
The idea that you need 500 watts for a pub gig seems bizarre to me. What kind of pubs are these?
[/quote]

Pubs where you're playing post-hardcore with a stupidly loud drummer!

Edited by SwamiRob
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Interesting replies.
My LH500 is usually at 10 o clock going through 2 x TC BC212 at most pub gigs we play at medium sized gigs.
Surprised at how many 200w amps seem to be okay for pub gigs though. A lot of threads on here talking about 200w amps seem to question whether they are loud enough so its good that the feeling here is the ones mentioned are adequate

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I'll have most of my amps up around 1' o clock on the dial, at least, and the smallest is 500w.

I think it depends what you need to hear and you are always reading here about bass players that can't hear themselves
with so many set-ups.
To me, that is all about the way you EQ the whole thing...not so much the volume.

I recently listened to a whole day of music at a charity bass and the pub hired in a P.A which had 6 boxes including subs.
After the first two bands... you couldn't hear what the bass player was playing altho you knew it was still there.
I don't know why they bothered, tbh as it was so draining and tiring on the ear.

I think many bass players can be heard..to a degree in a pub with all the guys playng loud, but what exactly can you hear and what can he play?
Maybe you don't need to hear more than they've got and maybe you don't want to...but you get a loud drummer and a pokey gtr like
a Les Paul or SG and you have a wall of sound that notr many basses and rigs will get passed ...and I mean 'passed' as in you can hear what the bass player is doing.

This free for all should not be about a wall of sound, it should be about the layers of the sound... and you need people to stay out of each others sonic space as well as staying out of their playing space...

I use what I use to make sure I can get a good sound underneath and over the top of things... not to fight them. Un fortunately it is a very rare gtr that will listen to the band and adjust his sound as he expect you to adjust yours..

I've said it before... get a band to play a straight 8 chugg parttern or shuffle... and set the bass and drums up on it.
When the keys come in..they'll automatically play something that gets out of the way..if they have any sort of brain.
Take a guess what most gtrs will do... and even if you invite them to play the exact same pattern... most will obliterate the bass in doing so
with the tone and playing style they have.

This is your problem... being oblivious.

Style of playing comes into it massively... a hard handed player will get way more volume off my bass than I ever could..but I want the amp headroom for finesse.

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Just wonder how you are all setting up your gain signal path, Is your bass passive/active ? is the volume full on, does your 500 w amp have a gain control front end where is this set and then is you master volume set to 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, or 10. I have two class D 500 watt amps and find they are far more than i require if i set my bass and input gain up correctly. I started out with a 60w combo in clubs it was fine.
I get really annoyed at manufacturers that only put all the bells and whistles on their largest powered amps. I would be happy paying for the additional flexibility on smaller powered amps.

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Gain @ 1, master @ 1...bass at 10, mid, treble and presense to suit.
Active is set to equate to to the passive volume but I can boost if need be..on the fly.

I'm currently passive for most things atm.
Volume full on a Jazz but at East pre config so not trad jazz vol controls.

I'm also messing around with effects and I'm setting them up to be neutral vol-wise.

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[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1447096337' post='2904854']
By 4dB to be precise, which isn't worth the bother. As equally valid a question is what is the point of 500w amps? If I manufactured amps I'd make the size differential between models at four times the power rating, say 50w, 200w, 800w.
[/quote]Surely a Jack cabinet with a 200W amp and you are good to go Bill.

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[quote name='zero9' timestamp='1447098485' post='2904887']
I wish I still had my Trace 4x10 150W combo, way more grunt than my current class D affair supposedly rated at 500W.
[/quote]

I was just about to mention Trace Elliot watts being louder than everyone else's.....Glad I kept my GP7 4 X 10 combo, apart from when I have to move it.

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[quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1447089978' post='2904762']
Forgive me if this is a daft question but i have often wondered it especially now we have small class D amps.
I appreciate watts is not a good way of measuring volume but think its clear most 500w amps would be louder than 200w regardless of manufacturer.
What i am getting at is its generally accepted 500w amps are loud enough for pub gigs without PA support but smaller 200w amps are hit and miss as to whether they are loud enough depending on venue size, genre etc. Therefore why take a gamble and not just buy a 500w amp? My LH500 on level 1 is quiet enough for me to use at home so no need for a 200w amp at home either.
May be it just comes down to price but usually a 500w version of a 200w amp is not that more and with class D amps they are all the same size and weight.
Be interesting to hear others opinions.
[/quote]

Jazzers

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