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Luthier vs Factory/Mass Produced


DavidMcKay
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[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1444859794' post='2886865']
Same is true for many of the luxury cars...BMW 6/7 series go for less than high specced 3 series after a few years....
[/quote] is that true? I might check out if it is. And is that like for like secondhand from private owners?

Somewhat relevant to this thread I do know that the more add ons and factory customisations you do to a new car (think Fiat 500 or equivalent) the lower the value will be when you come to sell it. Go for bog standard and dealers know they can buy and turn it over. Learnt that this week :)
[quote name='The Admiral' timestamp='1444944432' post='2887651']
I hadn't looked at ACG, so googled them, and sadly it confirmed my worst fears about custom basses : I couldn't find a design I liked at all, and they look like the kind of things I've only ever seen being wielded by jazzers and slap addicts, and usually with more strings than I like. No problem with that, and its all about beauty being in the eye of the beholder - but - the issue with holding value, is that they are by definition, one person's 'ideal', and as a consequence of human nature, and no two of us liking exactly the same things, they will only ever ''fit' the commissioning player (hopefully).

It's rather like 'custom cars', (which appear to be a passe thing now) : one man's orgasmic dream ride - Ford Escort MkII with a V8, and 'Dirty Harry' airbrushed custom paint, is somebody else's Chavvy pile of cack.

The fact that so many 'custom' basses come up for sale must surely bring into question the validity of the thought process of ordering one - if so many people buy one, and then sell it, surely (barring financially necessary clear outs) that's because it didn't live up to the dream? The problem is of course, unlike going to a retailer and trying a number of P basses (for example) until you find 'the one', you get what you are given when the Luthier's work is done.

There's also the image issue : if you are auditioning for a new band and you pull out a 'coffee table' 6 string, its likely to scare the natives - people like what they know, and you'll go a long way to find anyone more conservative than guitar players.
[/quote] The Greek has an ACG that I almost bought twice, and still kinda want.
But it's a single cut and that made me hesitate... and the Greek got it!
It's about the only ACG I've been interested in.

Mind you I did get a quote from ACG and a couple of other UK based Luthiers a year or so ago for a more workman like, simple plain bass- not much of the fancy stuff. Prices were less than a new USA fender- and it looked a great deal. I think the problem is that lots of people write down what they want... and then get tempted by wood porn.

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[quote name='Number6' timestamp='1444921933' post='2887384']
...instruments which don't look like grandfather clocks on straps.
[/quote]
[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1444980283' post='2887742']
This is actually a fairly accurate description of my bass...
[/quote]

I don't see the clockweights. Can we have a close-up of your clockweights, please? :mellow:

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Musicians are full of s***.:lol:

Seriously, though, I think it is important to remember that the world of music is full of people with some very different ideas and ideals when it comes to the instruments they choose and this is reflected in the secondhand market.

Most kids start off buying something that they can afford whilst gassing towards the bass that their idol plays. It is likely that most 'idols' play a Fender Jazz with some minute variation that collective hysteria accepts constitutes a signature model. That is the market that Fender probably leads. same with Strats and Teles and the same with Gibson Les Pauls. Every Jazzer has a Gibson ES175, every fusion/studio player has an ES335 and so on. Not a problem, they are great instruments.

There is an assumption that the custom market is informed in some way by the desires of a massively informed and tasteful elite who are able to discern the inherent sound properties of a certain piece of wood cut in a certain way of the south facing slopes of a certain mountain in Sicilly etc etc. Like art critics and wine snobs, there is plenty of evidence that these elitists are as likely to be charlatans as they are to be conniseurs. Being allowed to choose the wood, shape, finish, pick up configuration, fret size etc etc is a lovely indulgence but I for one would have no idea what would make a bass better or worse and what would render it simpoly different. One look at the custom archive of the Alembic website will show you that, like tattoos, allowing people to choose their own designs is as likely to result in an hysterical joke as it is a piece of art. Add in the fact that the number of people who know about the maker is much smaller, the desire to seek out that custom job and to 'wait until one appears on the market' is simply not there and you begin to get a sense that the purchase of a secondhand boutique bass is much riskier than a staple model. Like buying a chopper instead of a Harley. you are not sure what you are getting and you are not sure if you can sell it on if you change your mind. Also, the benefit of a boutique bass is 'this was designed for me', arguably THE main selling point of a custome bass, is not an aspect of the instrument that transfers on when you sell it. In short, by selling it on, you have immediately compromised it's greatest asset. Smaller market, lower inherent value to the purchaser and higher risks in terms of resale = cheaper prices..

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[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1444980283' post='2887742']
:lol:

This is actually a fairly accurate description of my bass...


[/quote]

That's a beautiful piece of wood, but I'd be petrified of catching the knobs on something and shearing one off. Oh - and it has 2 more strings than I need, but a fabulous piece of craftsman ship by the look of it. Your pride and joy no doubt.

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[quote name='The Admiral' timestamp='1444988161' post='2887842']
That's a beautiful piece of wood, but I'd be petrified of catching the knobs on something and shearing one off. Oh - and it has 2 more strings than I need, but a fabulous piece of craftsman ship by the look of it. Your pride and joy no doubt.
[/quote]

I'm more than happy with it.. especially as I had to wait 18 months for it! Not everyones cup of tea but it's everything I hoped it would be.

The front and back facings are Ziricote... I also got Paul to add a little piece on the headstock face.

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[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1444988652' post='2887852']


I'm more than happy with it.. especially as I had to wait 18 months for it! Not everyones cup of tea but it's everything I hoped it would be.

The front and back facings are Ziricote... I also got Paul to add a little piece on the headstock face.


[/quote]

Rob - you just had to go and do the W thing didn't you!

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[quote name='Number6' timestamp='1444921933' post='2887384']
Seasick Steve is a luthier.....or at least i prefer his less than pretentious creations for his instruments which don't look like grandfather clocks on straps.
[/quote]

I dunno, you could argue that for a wealthy and successful artist like Seasick Steve to keep up his hobo shtick and backyard lash-up instruments is actually kind of pretentious, or at least an affectation. I certainly felt like that when seeing him sing "Never met a rich man that I liked" with his friend John-Paul Jones on bass, who is on the Times rich list. The original blues guys would tend to go out and get themselves fantastic tailored suits and ostentatious instruments once they made some money!

Edited by Beer of the Bass
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[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1444892365' post='2886968']
The only time an esoteric bass like a Wal is any use is if you have the freedom to be using something that sounds a bit different. It wouldn't be any good for dad rock pub covers
[/quote]

Why on earth not? It's a bass, it will make bass noises in a pub rock band as well as any other bass.

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[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1445378612' post='2891133']
Why on earth not? It's a bass, it will make bass noises in a pub rock band as well as any other bass.
[/quote]

Yes of course it would, but would the tone suit rock covers? Plus you'd have punters asking where your fender was after every gig.

I'd go for P bass in that situation.

Edited by CamdenRob
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This is sort of a different discussion to the original, but, to be honest, every custom bass I've owned/played has not been good as the "mass produced" basses I still play today.

10's of thousands of pounds of basses have been owned by me, and still the best one I've ever played is a Sandberg, that I got secondhand from this site for something like 400 quid years ago.

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[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1444892365' post='2886968']


The only time an esoteric bass like a Wal is any use is if you have the freedom to be using something that sounds a bit different. It wouldn't be any good for dad rock pub covers and neither would it be any use if you joined an established band with a certain image and sound they wanted you to continue. I only play bass in bands where I have total control of what I am playing and how it sounds, so I can get away with having a different tone to the extablished norm. I just play what I like with a tone that I think works for my style of playing.


[/quote]

No Rob, I don't get that at all. I've always found my Wals to be hugely versatile and able to fit into any playing situation. That includes playing folk, pop/rock/soul covers, rock musicals and modern worship. I've never really found a situation where I couldn't dial in a sympathetic or appropriate tone. The covers band I used to play in covers a wide range of styles from Britpop to Motown, Beatles to Laurel Canyon singer songwriter, rock to easy listening, rock and roll to white reggae. I was able to dial up all sorts of tones from varying pickup blend and tone settings, plucking position and whatever. At one wedding we did a kid came up after one of the sets asking what effects I was using. He really liked the different tones I was getting. The only pedals I had were a Boss TU2 tuner and a Lehle 3@1 switching pedal to switch between my two basses. All the different sounds were just from altering pickup choice, tone settings and playing technique.

Lots and lots of different gig friendly sounds hiding inside a Wal when you know where to look for them..

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