phil.c60 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Does their regular player do "freebies" as well, or does it always seem that they need you for them because he's not available?....you can see where I'm headed with this. Apart from that, they should expect to pay a dep, and if it's local, a "free" gig (and let's not get into all that again, there's still another thread running at present doing it to death yet again) and the dep decides to say"that's OK I don't mind doing it for petrol money" that's a bonus. Not to be expected though. We're playing a festival gig next weekend, our drummer can't do it: the fee is minimal (but at least it is paid) so by the time we've paid the dep there's not much left for us, but that's [i]our[/i] decision. We all want to do it, so we have to take the hit, not the dep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles'tone Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Personally if this was going to be a good old hoot of a road trip and festival with some good mates, playing music I enjoy and I was getting fed and watered, costing me only what I was to lose by taking a day off work then I would go for it and have a rum old time making new memories. If it was looking like it's going to be a chore that was really going to cost me then not a chance I would do it. My 2d worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyctes Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1441015159' post='2855251'] Deps are [i]always [/i]paid. Regardless of your desire or otherwise to be a permanent member of this band, if you allow this precedent then you will be seen as an easy touch and will be asked to play a lot more freebies, perhaps to the point of not being paid where previously you would have been. I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot bass playing pole. Whatever that is. [/quote] About 110" scale, I reckon. Now I have GAS And, what he said: Do it now and you're stuck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 [quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1441014678' post='2855246'] I'd be inclined to say I wasn't available. Having to use a days holiday to cover an unpaid gig for a band I'm not really in would be a bit much for me. [/quote] This. I think your commitment to a band in which you're not fully signed up, is admirable. Any good band would be honoured to have you as a member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaypup Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 [quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1441009337' post='2855201'] Warren - this makes me wonder why the regular bass player is unavailable. Is it possible you are considering sacrificing more than perhaps he is in order to make it? But the bottom line is only you know how important it is going to be for you to do it - what, if any, repercussions there are going to be if you do or don't say yes. From an outside perspective my thoughts are that if, by agreeing to dep, you are likely to get a lot more paid work with the band then you could see it as an investment. If not then I personally feel it is taking advantage of your good nature. [/quote] Yeah it p*sses me off when I'm offered regular dep work because their bassist can't be arsed to do the crappy gigs but always manages to be available for the functions/big festivals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
such Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1441015159' post='2855251'] 10-foot bass playing pole [/quote] I'm only 5'11" :hiding: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shizznit Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 If the band or organisers are willing to cover your travel expenses then it's your choice to play it or not. There's nothing wrong with playing for free. If you are viewing it as a 'bit of fun' then crack on. But, it's your choice. As a dep you should not be out of pocket in any circumstance. I would never expect my dep to cover me for a gig that would hit them financially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1440977284' post='2855120'] I'm normally an "anytime, anywhere" type player, but this type of sacrifice for zero return is beginning to wear a little thin. Do other bands who employ the services of deps pay them no matter what, even if it's a freebie? [/quote] [quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1440978697' post='2855125'] So you are actually considering driving 250 miles and taking leave to do a gig as a favour for nothing? I wouldn't even have the balls to ask someone to do that, let alone expect it! [/quote] you appear to have set some sort of precedent and have three ish sort of options imho 1 continue the precedent and maintain the status quo 2 sudden bold dramatic u-turn accompanied by all the kerfuffle that this will undoubtedly entail 3 slow long drawn out u-turn hoping nobody notices too much hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiram.k.hackenbacker Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 I'm seeing a few of them later, so I'll have a chat and see what develops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Just seen someone post my thoughts Basically, yes, you've set a precendent as a dep by playing so many freebs, that they now expect it. As a dep, you are not part of the band, so disregard you play more gigs than their regular bassist. Unless you put your foot down, ( ah 1 ah 2 ah 3 and a 4 ) it will go on as they've got it sweet. While you keep accepting freebie gigs, they'll keep on not paying you. They're not daft are they ? Slight off topic To me, and i know this is the same for all musos, i'm wondering why gig money hasn't gone up with inflation. Everything has increased, yet gig money is either worse, or at best the same as 25 years back or more I know in '91 our band was getting roughly £250 per gig for pub work, and clubs paid a bit more. I'm sure it was at that level before then, and its still that way now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 It's not just zero return, you are losing a days leave too. The whole thing is costing you. A days leave is worth a normal day salary. Ignoring the expense of the travel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 If you [i][b]want[/b][/i] to do it, do it. If you don't want to, I think you have enough valid reasons for saying no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 [quote name='fleabag' timestamp='1441027266' post='2855433'] Just seen someone post my thoughts Basically, yes, you've set a precendent as a dep by playing so many freebs, that they now expect it. As a dep, you are not part of the band, so disregard you play more gigs than their regular bassist. Unless you put your foot down, ( ah 1 ah 2 ah 3 and a 4 ) it will go on as they've got it sweet. While you keep accepting freebie gigs, they'll keep on not paying you. They're not daft are they ? Slight off topic To me, and i know this is the same for all musos, i'm wondering why gig money hasn't gone up with inflation. Everything has increased, yet gig money is either worse, or at best the same as 25 years back or more I know in '91 our band was getting roughly £250 per gig for pub work, and clubs paid a bit more. I'm sure it was at that level before then, and its still that way now [/quote] Because too many people are prepared to work for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1440977284' post='2855120'] The regular bassist for a band I dep for is unavailable for a freebie music festival type gig they have been offered next summer. It's a fair trot away for a freebie (250 mile round trip) and as I work shift work, I will also have to take a nights leave. I've done freebies for them before, but they've been close and have landed on a day off rather than a work day. I have a feeling that the band see me more as the regular than the dep as by the end of this year I will have played more gigs with them than their regular. I'm normally an "anytime, anywhere" type player, but this type of sacrifice for zero return is beginning to wear a little thin. Do other bands who employ the services of deps pay them no matter what, even if it's a freebie? [/quote] For me this post pretty much sums up everything that is wrong with the whole depping system. IMO anyone who is replaced by a dep more times than they actually appear in a band is not a full time member irrespective of how good they are as a musician and what their role was in getting the band set up in the first place. If you regularly can't make the gig why are you in the band? Apart form very rare occasions reps should always be paid. If a band aren't prepared to pay and their regular member(s) can't do the gig maybe they shouldn't have accepted the gig in the first place? So, for the OP, is this gig with a covers or originals band? If it's covers you should be getting paid (and so should the band) no questions asked. If it's originals you need to weigh up how much you like the music/band against how inconvenienced and out of pocket you will be if you take the gig. The gig in question is almost a year away, so personally if this was me I'd let the band know that I'd been offered a paying gig on the same day, and see what they say. Either they'll come up with some money if they really want you, otherwise they still have plenty of time to find someone else to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Ive done freebie depping , friends band bassist was away when they did a charity festival. Its a great day , good stage and equipment, beer tents , camping and other bands to see. So I was happy to be part of the day. It would depend on who's asking , what it is etc and despite my above comment, generally I think the answer would be NO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gapiro Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 As most say, If i'm depping, its paid. Even if the pay is £20 or 30 travel expesnses, its paid something. I'm not going out of pocket for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.c60 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1441033503' post='2855504'] Because too many people are prepared to work for free. [/quote] Here we go again...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 A dep should always be paid, even if just covering expenses. Backing out gracefully: "Sorry lads but I just can't get the time off work that day" and then invent some crucial work-based event that requires your personal presence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 [quote name='phil.c60' timestamp='1441110496' post='2856082'] Here we go again...... [/quote] Sorry, it's actually because the cost of musical equipment and the cost of living have dropped so much that we are able to pass the substantial savings on to the customer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) Quite right Strange, my local garage charges a huge amount compared to 20 years ago to fix my Vauxhall. So does the local electrician, and the plumber, when i need their relevant services They obviously havent heard the news Edited September 1, 2015 by fleabag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1441033503' post='2855504'] Because too many people are prepared to work for free. [/quote] [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1441120891' post='2856194'] Sorry, it's actually because the cost of musical equipment and the cost of living have dropped so much that we are able to pass the substantial savings on to the customer. [/quote] Gigging for free or next to nothing does have a effect of things, but its a free market and people have the right to do it as a hobby. Many services and industries are effected by things, years ago you had to go to a printer/designer to get letter heads and logos done, my mate did mine when PCs became popular. Cheap labour or off duty firemen doing decorating for less than someone needs to charge to earn a wage etc. The invention of home accountancy packages, the list goes on. Bottom line is no one has the right to ask for their industry to be untouched by things like this (except bankers and farmers perhaps) I also believe if a musician is operating at a level where they are effected by someone playing the dog and duck for next to nothing, then they are not really making a career out of it anyway. Edited September 1, 2015 by lojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I was only trying to answer the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1441127459' post='2856286'] I was only trying to answer the question. [/quote] I know , Im just adding my views to the debate, used your quotes to link it, not attacking you my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 We just played festival in Bedfordshire. We needed to use our dep keys player, he charges £150. That's the deal, nothing to do with him what we get paid. As it turned out we got paid £250 but the organisers at the end so it was easy to pay him, otherwise, it was our choice to do the gig, knowing we'd need to stump up £150 from band funds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.c60 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 And I was just trying to point out, as I did in an earlier post, that this topic (bands playing for little or no money, festivals, charity gigs yadder yadder) is still running in another recent thread so do we have to do it all again. The OP's original point was that even if the band wanted to do the non-paying festival type gig should he, as a dep, still get paid. The general feeling seems to be that the answer is yes unless he chooses to waive his fee, which is his choice not theirs. The wider point about free, charity, festivals etc etc is not relevant as he, as a dep, has no part in the band's decision to take the gig unpaid - he should just be another expense like travel etc. for the band to consider - and just drags the topic down a very well worn road. If the cost of having him as a dep causes them to reconsider, or ask him to play for free as otherwise they can't (don't wan to) afford to do it, it's his decision what to do. Do it for expenses (fuel etc.), do it for free, or insist on his regular gig rate that they usually pay him. Not an easy one, but his decision none the less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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