the boy Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1441176025' post='2856581'] True, except when it come to The Beatles. No other generation had the chance to experience that we did. it's just one of those things you can't explain. In closing, we were there, you weren't. Respectably Blue [/quote] What about when 'Ugg' happened upon that hollowed out fallen tree and started to beat it in anger with his club after he was jilted by 'Dawn'. Was that not the first love song, and wasnt that revelation so pivotal that without it there wouldve never been a Beatles or a Mozart. I think the Beatles rewrote the map but the journey had begun long before the Beatles ever hopped on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1441176291' post='2856583'] And at some point Horace's influence go back to The Beatles. Protest, yeah The Beatles had a big foot print there too, especially John. Guys, were not talking about a record or a show. It was like a religion as I have said many times before, a way of life. Blue [/quote] Horace's influences lay in the Jamaican [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ska"]ska[/url] artists such Prince Buster. I'm not sure where the Beatles fit in there. And to the best of my knowledge, John Lennon did not invent the protest song. Look, I know you're not talking about [u]a[/u] record or [u]a[/u] show. Neither am I. But can you [i]please[/i] understand that for many people, the introduction to a different way of life and opening of eyes and so on might, just [i]might[/i], have had nothing to do with the Beatles? And can you please accept that while our epiphanies may not have been as genuinely world-changing as yours, they are just as [u]personally[/u] valuable? I can well understand that the world really did actually change when four Scousers stepped off a plane in 1964 or whenever, but for me it happened on Top of the Pops one night in 1979 when Madness, The Specials and The Selecter introduced me to a new way of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Frightening it could all happen again with Kanye West... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1441186058' post='2856679'] Frightening it could all happen again with Kanye West... [/quote] Yes indeed... sadly now One Direction have split this generation needs a new pop music hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 [quote name='Cosmo Valdemar' timestamp='1440967868' post='2855044'] Have a look at their live history up to that point. More than [i]most[/i] manage in a lifetime.[/quote] "most" being the operative word there. Elvis's for just one was incredibly busy even before then & The Stones and The Animals did likewise. Even well in to the 70's bands were often doing two shows in one day & going out for weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 [quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1441186379' post='2856681'] Yes indeed... sadly now One Direction have split this generation needs a new pop music hero. [/quote] I was referring more to his recent statement of taking over the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfretrock Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1441042604' post='2855604'] I think we have to put this all in context. <Snipped> Frankly, I am envious. I was there in the sixties but I wasn't [i]there[/i]. Everything else is white noise. [/quote] I think you've put this into context. I was also there in the sixties but I also wasn't [i]there[/i]. It was big here, but much bigger there. We did not have Ed Sullivan or even AM radio, or stadium concerts. I do remember one of the few live Beatle appearances on TV, think it was a Royal Variety Performance, everyone crowded around a snowy black and white TV set in the local working men's club, tuned to one of the two availble TV channels. I could have stayed home and listened to the Light Program. But hey, they soon had their own radio show on Luxy. Sunday night if I remember. Was a loooong time ago. They changed everything for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1441187499' post='2856691'] I was referring more to his recent statement of taking over the world. [/quote] Yes, but when Kanye said he was going to take over the world, he was talking [i]literally[/i]. We all thought he meant through the medium of music, but he was referring to the huge army of indestructible killer robots hidden away in his top secret mountain headquarters, poised and waiting to enslave all who comply and unleash a hideous electric death on those who do not. Mwa-ha-ha-ha-haaaa, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 [quote name='the boy' timestamp='1441178975' post='2856603'] What about when 'Ugg' happened upon that hollowed out fallen tree and started to beat it in anger with his club after he was jilted by 'Dawn'. [/quote] Ugg didn't change the world overnight. The Beatles did. I think the point Blue is trying to make - and I agree with him, even though I didn't experience it first hand - is more about the intensity of the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 [quote name='Rich' timestamp='1441188165' post='2856698'] Yes, but when Kanye said he was going to take over the world, he was talking [i]literally[/i]. We all thought he meant through the medium of music, but he was referring to the huge army of indestructible killer robots hidden away in his top secret mountain headquarters, poised and waiting to enslave all who comply and unleash a hideous electric death on those who do not. Mwa-ha-ha-ha-haaaa, and so on. [/quote] Or just maybe just running for President. http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/31/politics/kanye-west-2020-running-for-president-vma/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1441188642' post='2856705'] Ugg didn't change the world overnight. The Beatles did. I think the point Blue is trying to make - and I agree with him, even though I didn't experience it first hand - is more about the intensity of the change. [/quote] I think undiluted TV has a massive role in this. The U.S. had three TV stations. You'll never get that reach again. Look at the viewing figures for that show. 73 Million viewers! Edited September 2, 2015 by TimR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoying Twit Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1441189199' post='2856714'] I think undiluted TV has a massive role in this. The U.S. had three TV stations. You'll never get that reach again. Look at the viewing figures for that show. 73 Million viewers! [/quote] Why does it have to be through television? How many views did Gangnam Style get on youtube? A billion? (checks) well over two billion. Two girls one cup has probably been viewed well over 73 million times. Edited September 2, 2015 by Annoying Twit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 [quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1441189627' post='2856719'] Why does it have to be through television? How many views did Gangnam Style get on youtube? A billion? (checks) well over two billion. Two girls one cup has probably been viewed well over 73 million times. [/quote] Because you're unlikely to get most of the population watching a single YouTube clip for the first time simultaneously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoying Twit Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1441189925' post='2856726'] Because you're unlikely to get most of the population watching a single YouTube clip for the first time simultaneously. [/quote] Is that necessary? Clearly it won't be the same if not everyone is watching at the same time, but there is still the opportunity, given the reach, for a Beatles sized seismic shift to occur within days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 [quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1441190129' post='2856728'] Is that necessary? Clearly it won't be the same if not everyone is watching at the same time, but there is still the opportunity, given the reach, for a Beatles sized seismic shift to occur within days. [/quote] Days. With the Beatles, [i]millions[/i] were talking about it the next day. And also, it wasn't bubblegum wallpaper like Gangnam Style - it was something people had opinions about, one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoying Twit Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1441190339' post='2856730'] Days. With the Beatles, [i]millions[/i] were talking about it the next day. And also, it wasn't bubblegum wallpaper like Gangnam Style - it was something people had opinions about, one way or the other. [/quote] Days is still pretty quick. After all, The Beatles took years to conquer the world. While the Ed Sullivan show was crucial to their popularity in the US, there's more to the world than the US. And I'm not saying that Gangnam Style was as influential as a Beatles song, just showing that there is still the possibility of a sudden sensation taking over the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 [quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1441190635' post='2856736'] Days is still pretty quick. After all, The Beatles took years to conquer the world. While the Ed Sullivan show was crucial to their popularity in the US, there's more to the world than the US. And I'm not saying that Gangnam Style was as influential as a Beatles song, just showing that there is still the possibility of a sudden sensation taking over the world. [/quote] Sensations take over the world all the time. None approach the gargantuan culture shift of the Beatles, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoying Twit Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1441190958' post='2856739'] Sensations take over the world all the time. None approach the gargantuan culture shift of the Beatles, though. [/quote] Not since The Beatles, agreed. If there had been one rap act head and shoulders above the rest who innovated all the sub-genres that might get close. And as pointed out, there have been similar occurrences before, e.g. Mozart? However, that's a side track to the point I'm making. My point is not that such a culture shift has happened, but that if it occurs again, it will likely be through social media, not television. Hence, the current state of television is probably not relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Blue is talking about the overnight sensation in the U.S. While similar things have happened in the UK when I was a kid and we only had 3 TV channels. Blackadder and The Young Ones are TV shows that we were always talking about and couldn't await until the next episode. For people slightly older it was Monty Python. Gangnam Style, that's just a one off viral hit. Similar to the Ice Bucket challenge. Plus the Beatles already had a string of songs ready written to hit the U.S. with. Overnight they reached 20million more people than the entire population of the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1441186058' post='2856679'] Frightening it could all happen again with Kanye West... [/quote] When he becomes president? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) I'd agree that the Beatles were a unique cultural and social phenomenon which does not invite direct comparison with anything before or since, I can see that even as someone born in 1981. What I'm less keen on is the suggestion that exposure to that somehow makes anyone who was a certain age in a certain place at a certain time inherently wiser, more insightful and all-around [i]better[/i] than the rest of us. That sort of attitude can only lead to complacency and stagnation in music IMO. As a somewhat related example, I know a first-generation hippy who will cheerfully remind anyone within earshot that he was at Woodstock as though that grants him some sort of special status. He usually mentions this when trying to impress younger women. There is another guy I've chatted with now and again (some friends of mine have worked with him) who [i]played[/i] at Woodstock. He generally doesn't mention this unless someone brings it up, and even then he doesn't tend to hold forth on the matter. He wrote some songs that I grew up listening to which are now part of the inside of my head and turns out to be an unassuming and generally lovely bloke. I know which of the two has earned the greater respect from me. Edited September 2, 2015 by Beer of the Bass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoying Twit Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1441191218' post='2856745'] Gangnam Style, that's just a one off viral hit. Similar to the Ice Bucket challenge. Plus the Beatles already had a string of songs ready written to hit the U.S. with. Overnight they reached 20million more people than the entire population of the UK. [/quote] I think people are misinterpreting my use of Gangnam Style as an example. I'm not saying that it's influential, I'm just using it as an example of how a sensation (of any type and there are many types) can spread to a sizeable proportion of the Earth's population in very little time. Such that should something come along that could mimic The Beatles success and influence, there is a platform by which they can reach huge numbers of people quickly. Edited September 2, 2015 by Annoying Twit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 [quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1441192489' post='2856763'] I think people are misinterpreting my use of Gangnam Style as an example. I'm not saying that it's influential, I'm just using it as an example of how a sensation (of any time) can spread to a sizeable proportion of the Earth's population in very little time. Such that should something come along that could mimic The Beatles success and influence, there is a platform by which they can reach huge numbers of people quickly. [/quote] I still don't think something spreading via social media over a day or two in this intensively colourful world could have anything near the effect of The Beatles exploding out of pretty much everyone's TV sets in a relatively dour, black and white world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Minecraft. All the 11 year old boys want to be famous YouTubers like Stampee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the boy Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1441188642' post='2856705'] Ugg didn't change the world overnight. The Beatles did. [/quote] How do we know, he might've started a jungle drum sensation that spread throughout the world like a Mexican wave. In Blues own words 'you had to be there' and none of us were so I'm saying Ugg trumps the Beatles every time. UGGMANIA...... anybody wanna buy a t shirt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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