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The Beatles Curse


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Re Hero Worship and musical influence.

I saw New Model Army, David Bowie and Metallica in their glory years and those events certainly shaped my desire to play and style of playing. Not least because all three were in relatively small venues, so I could get close to the bassists and watch them (Gail Ann Dorsey, I still love you!!!) while absorbing the band as a whole.

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[quote name='blue' timestamp='1440625921' post='2852575']
And Bolan, Bowie, Slade and The Sweet were all influenced by the Beatles. IMHO, you had an interest in The Beatles, but you didn't know it. This is the point I have been trying to make to many that weren't there.

Blue
[/quote]

Yeah, but so what? *channelling my 13 year old self*

TBH everyone is influenced by everything they hear in both wanting to be like the bands they like and not wanting to be like the bands they don't like.

I'm sure that I have been influenced by The Beatles over the years but to me they are no more or less important as an influence then the 1000s of over bands that I have heard in that time.

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There were very few bands that I listened to, when first getting serious about music, that took much, if anything, from the Beatles. In my formative years I started by listening to 50's rock'n'roll and stuff Teddy boys would have listened to. From that I went to blues and r&b and from there to punk.
For my musical development they're a bit player.
And for the younger folk of today the Beatles have near no influence at all...not with regards to hip hop and contemporary R&B which seems to be their thing.

Edited by Marvin
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[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1440672208' post='2852815']
There were very few bands that I listened to, when first getting serious about music, that took much, if anything, from the Beatles. In my formative years I started by listening to 50's rock'n'roll and stuff Teddy boys would have listened to. From that I went to blues and r&b and from there to punk.
[/quote]

Punk? Snappy, high-energy songs played at breakneck pace in packed, grubby venues by amphetamine-fuelled kids.

That sounds strangely familiar :-)

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The Howard Goodall video is a very interesting one.

There are things that the Beatles did with the music around them that was more than just be influenced.

The changed the game, the whole way music was constructed. New ways of harmonising chordal work etc.

If you've ever played any Elton John songs and understood the chord changes then that's something that just wasn't around before the Beatles.

It's very clever and I'm very surprised that 4 poor lads from Liverpool with no formal music qualification or education could have done that.

Hence the George Martin link.

Although Paul and John may well have just bought all their influences into a melting pot and played what they did without knowing why. According to the video there was a clear evolution of their songs.

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I was born a few months too late to actually be defined as a Baby-Boomer, but I'm pretty sure you won't find a single one who has ever asked their parents to stop going on about the war -- we/they know that it was rather more important than four poorly-coiffed Scousers emerging from a 707. :)

BTW, we now have two almost identical Beatles-based threads. so I'm closing the other one.

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[quote name='Rich' timestamp='1440676235' post='2852864']
I was born a few months too late to actually be defined as a Baby-Boomer, but I'm pretty sure you won't find a single one who has ever asked their parents to stop going on about the war -- we/they know that it was rather more important than four poorly-coiffed Scousers emerging from a 707. :)

BTW, we now have two almost identical Beatles-based threads. so I'm closing the other one.
[/quote]

The ones involved in the war didn't talk about it.

But I take the point about the Beatles evangelism.

Some people are the same about Fender basses.

And with all Evangelism, the more you go on about something the less people will listen.

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I think it is fair to say that the Beatles were so Omni-influential and widely accepted that it would be hard to find in the western world, modern or contemporary music that wasn't influenced directly or indirectly by the Beatles. I think to say that every band would list the Beatles as an influence would be stretching the theory however I think it reasonable that you could link every modern bands influences to the Beatles by 3 degrees of separation. I think the tsunami created by the Beatles was so far reaching that it left very little in its path unaffected, and anything that wasn't affected by the initial blast almost certainly got a bump from the after tremors.

Anyone not accepting this as the truth is being stubborn and unrealistic.

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[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1440674659' post='2852847']
The Howard Goodall video is a very interesting one.

There are things that the Beatles did with the music around them that was more than just be influenced.

The changed the game, the whole way music was constructed. New ways of harmonising chordal work etc.

If you've ever played any Elton John songs and understood the chord changes then that's something that just wasn't around before the Beatles.

It's very clever and I'm very surprised that 4 poor lads from Liverpool with no formal music qualification or education could have done that.

Hence the George Martin link.

Although Paul and John may well have just bought all their influences into a melting pot and played what they did without knowing why. According to the video there was a clear evolution of their songs.
[/quote]

Paul in particular was very keen on show tunes, where quite sophisticated harmony would be used. As well as other more advanced concepts (compared to early 1960s rock/pop) such as modulation to different keys that the Beatles used right from the start. Didn't Bob Dylan say that the chords that the Beatles used were outrageous.

Have you seen Allan Pollock's "Notes On..." series analysing the Beatles' songs? [url="http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/awp-beatles_projects.shtml"]http://www.icce.rug...._projects.shtml[/url] It's surprising how much there is going on in even the simple sounding early songs such as "Love Me Do", but in particular by the time of songs such as "Another Girl". Sounds, simple, but there are some tricky key changes in there.

Edited by Annoying Twit
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[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1440688962' post='2853011'] ... Didn't Bob Dylan say that the chords that the Beatles used were outrageous ... [/quote]

I wouldn't be surprised at that but also I read somewhere that Roger McGuinn, pre-Byrds, was working for one of the songwriting companies in the Brill Building. His job was listen to hit songs on the radio, analyse them and so write another hit. Upon hearing The Beatles he was struck by their use of chords and chord progressions that were uncommon to most pop songs of the time.

Story also has it that George Martin warned against certain chords and cadences - e.g. ending on a 6 chord - because they were so old-fashioned but the band just responded 'we think it sounds great'.

Edited by EssentialTension
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[quote name='the boy' timestamp='1440684200' post='2852947']
I think to say that every band would list the Beatles as an influence would be stretching the theory however I think it reasonable that you could link every modern bands influences to the Beatles by 3 degrees of separation. I think the tsunami created by the Beatles was so far reaching that it left very little in its path unaffected, and anything that wasn't affected by the initial blast almost certainly got a bump from the after tremors.
[/quote]

A view around which we all might unite.

Though there might be some post-Beatlemania artistes whose Beatlefluences are less immediately detectable; Captain Beefheart springs to mind.

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[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1440694471' post='2853082']


Where have [i]you[/i] been for the last while? I was concerned that you'd dropped off the twig or run away to sea or something.
[/quote]

Someone mentioned Beefheart.

It sounds remarkably similar to Beetlejuice.

Well, they both start with b anyway.

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[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1440694471' post='2853082']
Where have [i]you[/i] been for the last while? I was concerned that you'd dropped off the twig or run away to sea or something.
[/quote]Resting, old chum; resting. Still clutching stubbornly onto the twig, though, and the last person to see me run is not young. Very sporadic for the moment, but, be assured, I'll be back. Thanks for the concern; you'll find out for yourself all about this 'ere ageing process in a couple of decades or so. There's no fighting it, and anyway, I've not enough breath to do so. Keep my place warm...

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[quote name='the boy' timestamp='1440684200' post='2852947']
I think it is fair to say that the Beatles were so Omni-influential and widely accepted that it would be hard to find in the western world, modern or contemporary music that wasn't influenced directly or indirectly by the Beatles. I think to say that every band would list the Beatles as an influence would be stretching the theory however I think it reasonable that you could link every modern bands influences to the Beatles by 3 degrees of separation. I think the tsunami created by the Beatles was so far reaching that it left very little in its path unaffected, and anything that wasn't affected by the initial blast almost certainly got a bump from the after tremors.

Anyone not accepting this as the truth is being stubborn and unrealistic.
[/quote]

Exactly!

I think we we hear a Beatles songs, it's multi dimensional for us. We experience a lot more than the song. All they hear is an old song they unfamiliar with and means nothing to them. Sort of like if I heard ( which I haven't ) a song by One Direction.

Blue

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[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1440688962' post='2853011']

Have you seen Allan Pollock's "Notes On..." series analysing the Beatles' songs? [url="http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/awp-beatles_projects.shtml"]http://www.icce.rug...._projects.shtml[/url] It's surprising how much there is going on in even the simple sounding early songs such as "Love Me Do", but in particular by the time of songs such as "Another Girl". Sounds, simple, but there are some tricky key changes in there.
[/quote]

For me, to this date, John's harmonica intro on "Love Me Do" is brilliant.

Blue

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[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1440662632' post='2852706']
Why do you think that? Does your hero worship blind you totally?
[/quote]

Because,Bolan, Bowie, Slade and The Sweet were influenced by The Beatles. All post 1964 rock pop bands were. It just the way it is. I won't even give you an answer on why I think they were. It's just silly to think they weren't. LOL

Blue

Edited by blue
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[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1440671594' post='2852812']
Yeah, but so what? *channelling my 13 year old self*

TBH everyone is influenced by everything they hear in both wanting to be like the bands they like and not wanting to be like the bands they don't like.

I'm sure that I have been influenced by The Beatles over the years but to me they are no more or less important as an influence then the 1000s of over bands that I have heard in that time.
[/quote]

I would say yeah, you have been influenced by The Beatles and so were the other 1000s of bands you mentioned.

Blue

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