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chaypup

How to get round headstock copyright issues

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Did anybody see this build thread on TB?
Great idea!

http://www.talkbass.com/threads/coming-soon-steinbacker-fretless-bass.858532/page-11

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He got round the headstock copyright, but then tried to sell it on eBay. Ric saw it, decided it was close enough for them to chuck their toys out of the pram, and made eBay take it down.

Good looking bass though.

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When yous see the Mess Fender are in by not enforcing trademarks you might understand why Rickenbacker are so keen.
$1.6bn and rising no doubt, some call it throwing toys from the pram, others call it making sure the workers keep their jobs by protecting your brand.
Rick make bespoke instruments to those that have the money to buy a bepoke instrument, why should they let people ripp of the brand and put them out of bussines, you want a Rick, buy a Rick.
They are expensive because they are made in the USA where they have to pay workers a living wage, I admire them for proving the dash to China is wrong, Look at Fender, Peavey and a few others, dashed to china and ripped off thier own brand and now going down the sh1tter faster than the proverbial curry.
Everyone hates them for not allowing ripp offs, yet everyone wants one, figure that one out.

Edited by spacey

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[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1425984035' post='2712958']
Yeah, RIC applied for and got a trade mark on the body shape a couple of years ago.
[/quote]

Not a trade mark, but trade dress. Which isn't applicable to private sales in Europe of items that don't claim to be RIC products, but eBay pull the listings anyway as they haven't got the resources to properly check such claims. The law is only supposed to apply if a buyer can be reasonably expected to confuse the "copy" with the "original". Which for a bass that is radically different to any that RIC have made - such as the linked headless one - means it isn't infringing the law.

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[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1425984063' post='2712959']
Rick make bespoke instruments to those that have the money to buy a bepoke instrument, why should they let people ripp of the brand and put them out of bussines, you want a Rick, buy a Rick.
[/quote]

They're not bespoke. They don't offer custom models, they're all banged out on CNC machinery. Their quality control is notorious, their customer support often blames faults on he instrument owner.

[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1425984063' post='2712959']
They are expensive because they are made in the USA where they have to pay workers a living wage.
[/quote]

Nope. They are expensive because supply is deliberately kept way below the demand, meaning they can charge a rather inflated premium for what is quite often a poorly made instrument. My Greco is superior to a Rickenbacker - for instance the routs in the cavities are way cleaner. They are made using automated machinery just like any other "mass produced" brand, except for the finishes which are often poorly executed (see the complaints about the "Blue Boy" finish in particular).

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If thats the case, you wont want one, no problem, stick with the copy.

I would say they cost so much, because the people who can afford them disagree they are a poorly made instrument.

Market forces, supply outstrips what they make and has done for many years.
A greedy boss would cash in and start knocking out Chinese junk, a clever one, knows he might be better been happy with making a good living over a longer period.
But to do this, they must protect the brand and tradmark, all succesful companies do, try selling supermarket pop as Coca cola or pepsi and see how long you get away with it.
Fender decided to turn a Blind eye and look where that lead them and now Gibson are doing the same and we are seeing fake Gibson basses, even SG specials landing daily, the latsest snide offerings.
The only people who appear to get upset are those wanting to buy snide.

Edited by spacey

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TBH the vast majority of people who claim to want a Rickenbacker bass don't want anything of the sort. What they want is something that sounds and feels like a Fender P or J with the Rickenbacker shape holographically projected over the top.

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[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1425994469' post='2713168']
TBH the vast majority of people who claim to want a Rickenbacker bass don't want anything of the sort. What they want is something that sounds and feels like a Fender P or J with the Rickenbacker shape holographically projected over the top.
[/quote]

Guilty 100%. I hardly play it nowadays but I love how it looks.

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[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1425993190' post='2713141']
If thats the case, you wont want one, no problem, stick with the copy.

I would say they cost so much, because the people who can afford them disagree they are a poorly made instrument.

Market forces, supply outstrips what they make and has done for many years.
A greedy boss would cash in and start knocking out Chinese junk, a clever one, knows he might be better been happy with making a good living over a longer period.
But to do this, they must protect the brand and tradmark, all succesful companies do, try selling supermarket pop as Coca cola or pepsi and see how long you get away with it.
Fender decided to turn a Blind eye and look where that lead them and now Gibson are doing the same and we are seeing fake Gibson basses, even SG specials landing daily, the latsest snide offerings.
The only people who appear to get upset are those wanting to buy snide.
[/quote]

You appear to be getting upset, if I may observe.

Fender did not "turn a blind eye". They started making Squiers in order to beat the copyists at their own game, by legitimising some of them - getting them to make legitimate Fenders for the Japanese market in return for them taking their own branded copies off the shelves. An arguably more positive approach than the necessary "threaten everyone" approach when you go down the trademark/trade dress approach.

Am I the only one who finds the whole "Chinese junk" thing a bit off? A bit disrespectful in my opinion.

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[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1425994469' post='2713168']
TBH the vast majority of people who claim to want a Rickenbacker bass don't want anything of the sort. What they want is something that sounds and feels like a Fender P or J with the Rickenbacker shape holographically projected over the top.
[/quote]

I may not be one of those, I reckon. I started out on an Ibanez Ric copy, and I still have a bit of a soft spot for the narrow string spacing at the bridge end, shallow body depth and the way the neck feels about the same shape all the way up. I find that pickups up by the end of the neck have their own sound too. I'm not mad about the pickup cover or the way that bridge design hampers palm-muting, but this is why aftermarket parts (or indeed the 4004) exist. So I think that if the funds are there at some point, I could really enjoy a Ric.

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[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1425995896' post='2713189']
I may not be one of those, I reckon. I started out on an Ibanez Ric copy,
[/quote]

They were on of the few copies that could get the body thickness and headstock pitch angle about right.

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[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1425996714' post='2713200']
They were on of the few copies that could get the body thickness and headstock pitch angle about right.
[/quote]

Yes, while the pickups were fairly ropey I think they got the proportions and feel down pretty well and they used decent looking maple too. Mind you, on mine the truss rod was buggered and it suffered a major structural failure where the neck joined the body, so perhaps I shouldn't be [i]too[/i] enthusiastic about it's quality!

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[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1425995163' post='2713179']
Am I the only one who finds the whole "Chinese junk" thing a bit off?
[/quote]

Nope - I do, too.

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[quote name='ColinB' timestamp='1426000570' post='2713264']
Nope - I do, too.
[/quote]

How about this then,.
Nasty cheap chinese slave labour junk !
Behind the sofa yet ?

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[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1425996714' post='2713200']
They were on of the few copies that could get the body thickness and headstock pitch angle about right.
[/quote]
They really weren't. Ever seen one? The least accurate 4001 copy marketed by any Japanese brand. Lovely old basses but f-all like a Rick beyond the basic shape.

[sharedmedia=core:attachments:48534]

Most vintage MIJ 4001 copies were not concerned with spot-on accuracy, compare them side-by-side and they're different shapes & sizes from each other, never mind a real Rick. And real 4001s were never exactly consistent.

And it's worth mentioning that most "Ibanez" copies are nothing of the sort.

Jon.

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I thought I read somewhere that the Ric copies made under the 'Greco' label were half decent efforts but I'm no expert.

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[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1426001390' post='2713275']
How about this then,.
Nasty cheap chinese slave labour junk !
Behind the sofa yet ?
[/quote]

Is there any evidence for this? Say, especially with Fender. I ask because I had a Chinese built Fender Coronado and the build quality and finish were flawless.

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[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1426001390' post='2713275']
How about this then,.
Nasty cheap chinese slave labour junk !
Behind the sofa yet ?
[/quote]

How about this then:

What an ingnorant blanket statement.

Try: In my opinion it's cheap junk, and in this case it happens to be made in China - and I don't have a clue about the working conditions.

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[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1426007422' post='2713361']
I thought I read somewhere that the Ric copies made under the 'Greco' label were half decent efforts but I'm no expert.
[/quote]
Greco 'fakers were made by Matsumoku (bolt on necks) and Fuji Gen (through neck). Both good manufacturers. :)

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Rickenbackers are instruments for discerning connoisseurs who happily pay a higher price for fine American craftsmanship. RIC owner Mr John Hall enjoys an enviable reputation for prudently protecting his company's intellectual assets and trademarks.

Ric haters are often simply jealous of those who embrace this world class brand. :)

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Rickenbackers are instruments for fanbois whose wallets are bigger than their ears and whose xenophobic stupidity allows them to be ripped off. RIC owner Mr John Hall is the classic Bullying American who stamps on copies because they're twice as good and 1/3 the price of his junky, dinosaur tat.

Ric lovers are often deluded fantasists looking down their noses at the rest of us. :)
[color=#fff0f5].[/color]

Edited by skankdelvar

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