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Ulas Engin

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Oof. 

I have been getting a bit excited about ordering a Jake 5 to my own specs, drooling over the website.

In order to fund it I will have to sell my Fender Custom Shop P,  which is the best 4 string I've ever played.. After reading the last few pages of this thread I've really gone off the idea! 

I can't afford a Shuker unfortunately but does anyone know of another builder that makes quality custom P5 style basses on these shores for, say, a grand and a half?

Wishful thinking?

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5 minutes ago, miles'tone said:

Oof. 

I have been getting a bit excited about ordering a Jake 5 to my own specs, drooling over the website.

In order to fund it I will have to sell my Fender Custom Shop P,  which is the best 4 string I've ever played.. After reading the last few pages of this thread I've really gone off the idea! 

I can't afford a Shuker unfortunately but does anyone know of another builder that makes quality custom P5 style basses on these shores for, say, a grand and a half?

Wishful thinking?

It all a really sad affair. My Jake5+P is the best P type I've ever played... built like a tank and tone for days. It's gutting to think that others might not get the same positive experience that I did.

FB_IMG_1509915920949.jpg

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13 minutes ago, NickD said:

It all a really sad affair. My Jake5+P is the best P type I've ever played... built like a tank and tone for days. It's gutting to think that others might not get the same positive experience that I did.

FB_IMG_1509915920949.jpg

That looks wonderful. I'll keep an eye on this thread and see how things go, but as somebody wise on here once said, regarding gas, "sometimes the best thing to do is nothing".

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16 minutes ago, NickD said:

It all a really sad affair. My Jake5+P is the best P type I've ever played... built like a tank and tone for days. It's gutting to think that others might not get the same positive experience that I did.

 

I have absolutely no complaints about my Jake 5, either.  It exceeded my expectations, which were already high.  Fit and finish are perfect.

 

IMG_2101.jpg

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3 hours ago, miles'tone said:

Oof. 

I have been getting a bit excited about ordering a Jake 5 to my own specs, drooling over the website.

In order to fund it I will have to sell my Fender Custom Shop P,  which is the best 4 string I've ever played.. After reading the last few pages of this thread I've really gone off the idea! 

I can't afford a Shuker unfortunately but does anyone know of another builder that makes quality custom P5 style basses on these shores for, say, a grand and a half?

Wishful thinking?

Mike at Zoot?

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On 25/07/2018 at 13:11, mrtcat said:

Yes on this occasion a refund. Still leaves me needing a 5 string but I'll take time to consider options before jumping in lol.

Glad to see you got things resolved to your liking... 

Adrian's currently taking the 'customer is always wrong' approach with my issue, which is disappointing, but I'm going to persevere and see what happens...

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1 hour ago, El_JimBob said:

Glad to see you got things resolved to your liking... 

Adrian's currently taking the 'customer is always wrong' approach with my issue, which is disappointing, but I'm going to persevere and see what happens...

Just had a reply back from him - he won't accept responsibility for any of the neck problems I've had with my bass, not even the high fret that it initially shipped with (my fault for choosing stainless steel frets apparently). 

The short of it is I've asked him (pleaded, even) to do the right thing by his customer - he's now gone and accused me of threats and trying to blackmail him... (okay, so perhaps again he's been lost in translation, but these are pretty serious words to come from a business owner towards a customer)

Honestly, this is not how I saw this conversation panning out - anyone got any advice?

 

Edit - full disclosure - this is what I sent him... 

"When you initially shipped the bass to me, I mentioned there was a high fret, and you were prepared to admit then that problems could occur, so why not now? When I was experiencing further problems with the neck, you did indeed just tell me to take it to a luthier, that there was nothing you could do for me which led me to believe that you are not interested in your customer once you have their money. I was despondent...

So I'm giving you the opportunity to do the right thing by the customer and fix this for me. Because I still believe in yours and Mensinger's reputation for excellence, despite my experience. I'm not asking for a refund (although perhaps I should be) - just for you to make things right. So Adrian, can you make it right for me?"
Edited by El_JimBob
full disclosure of email sent to Maruszczyk
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On 03/08/2018 at 11:16, El_JimBob said:

Just had a reply back from him - he won't accept responsibility for any of the neck problems I've had with my bass, not even the high fret that it initially shipped with (my fault for choosing stainless steel frets apparently). 

The short of it is I've asked him (pleaded, even) to do the right thing by his customer - he's now gone and accused me of threats and trying to blackmail him... (okay, so perhaps again he's been lost in translation, but these are pretty serious words to come from a business owner towards a customer)

Honestly, this is not how I saw this conversation panning out - anyone got any advice?

 

Edit - full disclosure - this is what I sent him... 

"When you initially shipped the bass to me, I mentioned there was a high fret, and you were prepared to admit then that problems could occur, so why not now? When I was experiencing further problems with the neck, you did indeed just tell me to take it to a luthier, that there was nothing you could do for me which led me to believe that you are not interested in your customer once you have their money. I was despondent...

So I'm giving you the opportunity to do the right thing by the customer and fix this for me. Because I still believe in yours and Mensinger's reputation for excellence, despite my experience. I'm not asking for a refund (although perhaps I should be) - just for you to make things right. So Adrian, can you make it right for me?"

That's just not acceptable.  Like I said before, he's walking on thin ice and needs to give customer complaints-handlng to a professional.  If further proof were needed that Adrian himself does not have the necessary skills, then you've just provided that proof.  I wouldn't now buy another bass direct from Public Peace, so my choices are either buy used off this forum or new from Bass Direct.  Given the high-handed attitude he seems to be adopting, Adrian may not have UK distributor for much longer - or a business!

In terms of advice, it gets a bit tricky when reasoning and pleading have failed.  If I were you, I'd consider getting an inspection and report done by a suitably qualified person.  It may even be worth contacting Mark at Bass Direct to see whether they'd be prepared to have a look and give an opinion - he can only say no but at least you've made him aware that there's a fair bit of dissatisfaction with Maruszczyk quality in the UK*.  You could also harness Basschat power by organising a petition - "We the undersigned are UK customers of Public Peace.  We are concerned about the recent poor quality of some of the basses we have purchased from you and think your refusal to rectify E_JB's bass is unreasonable.  We therefore wish to register our support for his claim."  I'd be happy to put my name to something along those lines to be sent to Adrian and copied to Mark.

*If I were Mark, I'd be monitoring this topic and getting involved without being asked.

Edited by scrumpymike
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100% fully sympathise with El_JimBob on his situation - none of us would like any issues like that with our basses.

Out of curiosity I Googled how can a guitar neck warp ('cos I'm clueless on such things!), & there are factors such as storage location, humidity, heat & strings that can cause a neck twist & nothing to do with manufacturing or age it seems.

From his posts, EJB has had his bass for a few months & if Adrian has had no other similar issues with other basses & has looked this one over, he might genuinely believe he is not at fault. After all, a bit odd to agree to take it back in the first place for a look if he wasn't prepared to fix it if he was at fault.

I'm not saying who's right or wrong here (totally impossible to tell which is why I wouldn't be signing above mooted petition). 

EJB - has Adrian explained why he feels he doesn't need to fix it?

An awkward situation for sure & I hope it gets resolved in some way to everyone's satisfaction.

 

 

Edited by Wilco
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On 04/08/2018 at 16:03, Wilco said:

100% fully sympathise with El_JimBob on his situation - none of us would like any issues like that with our basses.

Out of curiosity I Googled how can a guitar neck warp ('cos I'm clueless on such things!), & there are factors such as storage location, humidity, heat & strings that can cause a neck twist & nothing to do with manufacturing or age it seems.

From his posts, EJB has had his bass for a few months & if Adrian has had no other similar issues with other basses & has looked this one over, he might genuinely believe he is not at fault. After all, a bit odd to agree to take it back in the first place for a look if he wasn't prepared to fix it if he was at fault.

I'm not saying who's right or wrong here (totally impossible to tell which is why I wouldn't be signing above mooted petition). 

EJB - has Adrian explained why he feels he doesn't need to fix it?

An awkward situation for sure & I hope it gets resolved in some way to everyone's satisfaction.

 

 

I've been following this thread with interest but it seems to have 'stalled' for a while.

I have been trying to think through reasons why a neck might become unplayable and warp / twist.

Bowing is relatively common (and understandable given the pressure exerted by the strings pulling on the neck) but usually fixed by careful truss rod adjustment.

I've also seen the odd small 'hump' appear on a fingerboard (which can often be sorted with careful shaving of the board).

The other thing that sometimes appears to be a 'warp' is an issue in the neck pocket where one side of the neck is sitting lower than the other. This is one of those 'painful' jobs where experimentation with little shims of varying sizes can make all the difference.

All of these things are a, relatively, easy fix for a good luthier.

However, a full 'twist at the headstock is a lot rarer. My first thought was that this could be caused if a neck was initially bowing and the truss rod was then tightened to such a degree that it either snapped or, more likely, was pulled out of its anchor. This would then remove the support from the neck and it would start to bow quite quickly. 

A potential additional side effect, without that vital truss rod support, could be that the heavier strings will exert more pull on the headstock than the lighter ones and the neck will start to twist with the upper side rising more than the lower. This is something I've heard of but never actually seen on an instrument.

I wonder if this could be the cause of the problem? It would certainly render the neck unplayable in a relatively short period and it's much more of a hassle to fix than the other things I came up with. I should mention that I'm no luthier - just experienced quite a few instruments that needed some pro attention :)

It would definitely be interesting to see what Adrian thinks and why he considers it not to be a warranty repair. 

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On 03/08/2018 at 11:16, El_JimBob said:

Just had a reply back from him - he won't accept responsibility for any of the neck problems I've had with my bass, not even the high fret that it initially shipped with (my fault for choosing stainless steel frets apparently). 

The short of it is I've asked him (pleaded, even) to do the right thing by his customer - he's now gone and accused me of threats and trying to blackmail him... (okay, so perhaps again he's been lost in translation, but these are pretty serious words to come from a business owner towards a customer)

Honestly, this is not how I saw this conversation panning out - anyone got any advice?

 

Edit - full disclosure - this is what I sent him... 

"When you initially shipped the bass to me, I mentioned there was a high fret, and you were prepared to admit then that problems could occur, so why not now? When I was experiencing further problems with the neck, you did indeed just tell me to take it to a luthier, that there was nothing you could do for me which led me to believe that you are not interested in your customer once you have their money. I was despondent...

So I'm giving you the opportunity to do the right thing by the customer and fix this for me. Because I still believe in yours and Mensinger's reputation for excellence, despite my experience. I'm not asking for a refund (although perhaps I should be) - just for you to make things right. So Adrian, can you make it right for me?"

That’s a really unfortunate thing to happen. Did you tweak the truss at any point?

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1 minute ago, wateroftyne said:

That’s a really unfortunate thing to happen. Did you tweak the truss at any point?

Unfortunately, I was having to do that constantly, sometimes several times a week - the neck was just constantly moving - some days as flat as a pancake, others it was noticeably bowed again. Something just didn't seem right. Of course, I should have done something about it right there and then, but I figured not having owned a brand new hand-built bass before that we still might be in the 'settling in' period people talk of, however long it lasts...

So, eventually the inevitable happens and the truss seizes up. At his point, the neck seems to be forcing itself into a back bow, so I give a set of slightly heavier strings a go and that seems to do the trick - at least making it playable again. I contacted Adrian at this point, waiting nearly a week for him to respond. When he does, he simply says to take it to a luthier, maybe they can fix it. We exchanged a few more emails, but to be honest I just found the whole process exhausting - he's clearly far better at discussing specs and taking orders than any kind of follow-up service. Foolishly, although for the sake of my health, I let the matter go again...

Now there's a full-blown twist in the neck (see attached pictures - I think it's pretty obvious, Adrian's not convinced) so it has to go back to him, and that's where we are today. He's sending it back to the Mensinger workshop for them to take a look, but he has cautioned me there will be a cost.

I'm not after any kind of witch hunt here - clearly the majority of owners are extremely happy with the instruments Adrian has had built for them (although the number of owners who had their luminlays forgotten is slightly alarming - that happened to me too) and I can't dispute the quality of work done on the body of my own instrument, but the neck is an absolute lemon. Perhaps his aggravation comes from the fact that he's simply not used to hearing criticism, who knows. But he has rubbed me up the wrong way, and accusing me of blackmail when I was simply pleading for him to consider the fact that the bass neck itself might be at fault was the final straw. I won't ever be giving him any more of my hard earned money after this is resolved. 

(Plus he really should have someone else answering and replying to emails, promptly and courteously... After all, he boasts of employing over 20 people - perhaps someone else in the team would be suitable for this role - especially as he seems to be spending more and more time gallivanting around the globe with his buddy Wojtek... That's just my opinion, though)

IMG_20180722_223918__01.jpg

IMG_20180722_224921__01.jpg

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12 minutes ago, El_JimBob said:

Unfortunately, I was having to do that constantly, sometimes several times a week - the neck was just constantly moving - some days as flat as a pancake, others it was noticeably bowed again. Something just didn't seem right. Of course, I should have done something about it right there and then, but I figured not having owned a brand new hand-built bass before that we still might be in the 'settling in' period people talk of, however long it lasts...

It lasts about.. oh.. not at all!

I have had a few new basses, including an elwood. None of them involved settling in.

Also adjusting a truss rod is only something I have done recently in 35 years of having guitars and basses, and certainly not much.

 

12 minutes ago, El_JimBob said:

Now there's a full-blown twist in the neck (see attached pictures - I think it's pretty obvious, Adrian's not convinced) so it has to go back to him, and that's where we are today. He's sending it back to the Mensinger workshop for them to take a look, but he has cautioned me there will be a cost.

Adrians not convinced that is a twist?

Unless you paid extra for one of those fancy torzal twist designs, that is what my parents would have said is as bent as a 9 bob note.

I would be cautioning him that there will be a consumer fitness for purpose action coming.

 

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26 minutes ago, El_JimBob said:

Unfortunately, I was having to do that constantly, sometimes several times a week - the neck was just constantly moving - some days as flat as a pancake, others it was noticeably bowed again. Something just didn't seem right. Of course, I should have done something about it right there and then, but I figured not having owned a brand new hand-built bass before that we still might be in the 'settling in' period people talk of, however long it lasts...

So, eventually the inevitable happens and the truss seizes up. At his point, the neck seems to be forcing itself into a back bow, so I give a set of slightly heavier strings a go and that seems to do the trick - at least making it playable again. I contacted Adrian at this point, waiting nearly a week for him to respond. When he does, he simply says to take it to a luthier, maybe they can fix it. We exchanged a few more emails, but to be honest I just found the whole process exhausting - he's clearly far better at discussing specs and taking orders than any kind of follow-up service. Foolishly, although for the sake of my health, I let the matter go again...

Now there's a full-blown twist in the neck (see attached pictures - I think it's pretty obvious, Adrian's not convinced) so it has to go back to him, and that's where we are today. He's sending it back to the Mensinger workshop for them to take a look, but he has cautioned me there will be a cost.

I'm not after any kind of witch hunt here - clearly the majority of owners are extremely happy with the instruments Adrian has had built for them (although the number of owners who had their luminlays forgotten is slightly alarming - that happened to me too) and I can't dispute the quality of work done on the body of my own instrument, but the neck is an absolute lemon. Perhaps his aggravation comes from the fact that he's simply not used to hearing criticism, who knows. But he has rubbed me up the wrong way, and accusing me of blackmail when I was simply pleading for him to consider the fact that the bass neck itself might be at fault was the final straw. I won't ever be giving him any more of my hard earned money after this is resolved. 

(Plus he really should have someone else answering and replying to emails, promptly and courteously... After all, he boasts of employing over 20 people - perhaps someone else in the team would be suitable for this role - especially as he seems to be spending more and more time gallivanting around the globe with his buddy Wojtek... That's just my opinion, though)

IMG_20180722_223918__01.jpg

IMG_20180722_224921__01.jpg

Ouch.

Daft question - did you turn it the right way?

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40 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

Ouch.

Daft question - did you turn it the right way?

Yes. The right way is the wrong way, right? At least, it works in the opposite direction to any bass I've used before...

(fortunately I'd read about that in advance, otherwise I'd have found out the hard way) 

Edited by El_JimBob
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This is really sad to see. 

My personal feeling is that the move to the new production facility in Poland has caused a real decline in quality. Possibly (and this is mere guesswork) new staff being trained on the job coupled with the pressures of settling into new facilities alongside rising numbers of orders. The pressures are causing the cracks to show.

I really hope El_JimBob gets his bass sorted. That's not right at all.

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11 minutes ago, mrtcat said:

This is really sad to see. 

My personal feeling is that the move to the new production facility in Poland has caused a real decline in quality. Possibly (and this is mere guesswork) new staff being trained on the job coupled with the pressures of settling into new facilities alongside rising numbers of orders. The pressures are causing the cracks to show.

I really hope El_JimBob gets his bass sorted. That's not right at all.

FWIW, they've been built in Poland for years...

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