Mr.T Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 Just to clarify.... We are happy with the sound of our singer's Mackie SRM650's. The problem is reliability. ...and the cabs are too heavy for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 [quote name='Mr.T' timestamp='1420193488' post='2646462'] We are happy with the sound of our singer's Mackie SRM650's [/quote]Obviously, as you would have ditched them already were that not the case. That's where getting user recommendations is dodgy, because most people will recommend what they have, and who is going to keep something that they don't like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Electrovoice powered 12's are a great investment. Very light speakers with an immense sound! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 OK, so aiming to be a bit more objective on what I'd recommend, based on the small pub stuff plus the larger venue engineering that I do. I'm very much on the active side. My own stock comprises RCF ART 722 and 710s. But I'd certainly happily consider the Yamaha DXRs (though personally, I'd spend more for the DSRs). Nothing wrong with QSCs either. And, if you're on a budget, the Alto Truesonics range is great punch for value. All good mid-range stuff. Mackie are OK, but have had enough turkeys to put me off, and Thump are a budget brand. It did finally make it into the thread, but a huge strong point of any decent active cab is the matching of the amplification to the drivers. So, you're bi-amped (separate amps for HF & LF drivers), with the crossover before the amps. And the crossover should be just right for the drivers in the cab. Better still, you should have protection built in making it (almost) impossible to kill anything. A decent passive rig can do all of this, but you'll need a separate speaker controller & double the amps if you're going to do the job properly - this typically drives the cost and budget very high - much higher than the equivalent active package. The "simplicity" of a passive setup for cabling is true, as long as your amps and controllers are all racked up together. Wheel in the rack and then it's a single cable to each speaker, rather than running power to every speaker. In a bigger venue, or for more serious touring, I certainly prefer this setup, but you're talking small pubs/clubs where the distances aren't great, so you've probably got mains close to each speaker anyway. And you could always improve your simplicity even more by getting/making mains/XLR combo cables if you really wanted. Don't underestimate how heavy an amp rack can become (unless you spend megabucks) - yes, you can put it on wheels, but then you're into van+ touring which I suspect you're not. For vocals only, especially if weight is an issue, I'd happily stick with decent 10" cabs. And don't expect them to be deficient in implied bass for all but kick & bass (which you're not using). I often consider the redundancy issue and like the fact that, at a pinch, you can drop back to using a single speaker. And, if your mixer fails, you can always plug a mic (dynamic mics only - no phantom power) directly into the speaker. So, for your setup, in the unlikely event of a mixer failure, you could have two of your 3 mics still active (one in each speaker) A big mixer amp? They tend to be a bit of a jack of all trades, and are typically nothing special. The Yamaha mixer amp you're looking at is a *lot* bigger (and heavier) than the little Behringer mixer you're using! Weight is the number one issue that would push me towards a 10" speaker. Plus the fact that decent contemporary speakers are no slouches in the 10" size. The original RCF ART 710s are only 11kg (think the 310s are about the same and are not that far behind the 710s), though the current mk 2 ART 710s are 14kg, as are the Yamaha DXR10s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandad Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) My usual set-up and the rig I kept as my preference for easy transport, easy setup, versatility, reliability and good sound for most pubs and clubs is a Yamaha EMX powered mixer. I use EV SX300 12" passives. Not too heavy. A little top cut mellows their brightness. For the occasional pub/party disco I tried a pair of EV SXA100's, (powered 12") - great sound. I wasn't too keen on long mains cables though. For a sub, (would you believe), I used a Roland KC150 keyboard amp. It worked well. You might think about changing/upgrading the Behringer mixer and maybe try out a Yamaha Stage-Pass or similar if it's just for vocals. Lots of well meant advice on here but try before you buy, good luck. Edited January 3, 2015 by grandad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.T Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 I have had a very long chat with my singer... She prefers the idea of buying 3 x matching active 10's (using one as a monitor) and buying a spare Behringer mixer. I can see her logic, as we would then be pretty much covered for any breakdowns. This would mean her looking at the cheaper priced cabs. I have read a few reviews on the Alto Truesonic TS110's. They seem almost too good to be true at a touch over £200 each. Does anyone have any experience of them, particularly how they compare with some of the higher priced active 10's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 No, I don't know them, but I have heard more than one person say that they are way better than their pricepoint might suggest. I went for Yamaha as I thought the QSC were in no way £200 odd better... but since the price is a lot closer now, I'd buy QSC is buying now... but Alto are waaay waay cheaper so you have to hear them side by side and see whether you can justify 3x£300 difference in them.. or whatever the final figure is.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 The Altos are around £200, all the better 10" actives are £400 and up. Don't expect miracles, but do expect a reasonable bargain, based on all I've heard of them (from others). But do try them before you buy, or find a seller who will accept returns easily, just in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6v6 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 [quote name='Mr.T' timestamp='1419855651' post='2643196'] I was wondering about the Mackie Thump range? SRM650 ... 46lbs Thump 15 ... 36lbs. Thump 12 ... 25.5lbs. [/quote] Don't buy a Thump - we have a TH12 and it's not been reliable. They are light in part because the stock woofer is underrated and won't handle the power of the built in amplifier. When I took ours in for repair (after a sudden complete failure at a gig) the service centre said they'd repaired hundreds of them - similar story for the newer SRMs apparently (we have some v2 ones which have been OK but they are heavy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 You do get what you pay for to an extent but the cheaper brands are improving. The Altos are reviewing well and although I haven't heard them the Behringers are improving. The technical problem with cheap speakers is that of expensive magnets and tight tolerance manufacturing. Cheap speakers tend to be limited in the bass levels they can produce, as a result the bass can be light or they can reduce the efficiency so the speaker keeps a good balanced response but won't go so loud. The Mackie Thumps do this, I've heard them sounding great with singer songwriter stuff but they just won't go as loud as the SRM's. The Alto's go to 123dB peak against 127db for the RCF's and you'll notice the 4dB if you are playing with a full rock band. I've heard the 112's and they are OK. good value but not up to the better makers, at over twice the price and not as good as your Mackies, the 110's will sound different of course. Do try them before you buy. To get an idea there's a direct sound comparison between JBL full price speakers and the Altos here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz-GnQ7PyhQ Another budget brand to go for might be Wharfedale. I recently bought some Titan12D's from Andertons for the ridiculously low offer price of £139 ea to use as backup floor monitors. They are an easy one hand carry and the vocal sound is amazing, if the cabinet didn't resonate like crazy on bass I'd use them as my main tops. Your singer isn't daft, three identical speakers using one as monitor is a great idea. For all the reasons suggested I think actives are the way to go. You could of course go for two RCF's and use one of the mackies on the floor until you can afford a third RCF but do try them before you buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taunton-hobbit Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 'Thumps' do not have a good rep - my tech always seems to have a couple in for repair.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 3 of these sound a good deal... [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/rcf_art_310_a_mk_iii.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/rcf_art_310_a_mk_iii.htm[/url] As said, you could get a P.A bundle for less than £800 and use the Mackie as a monitor for the time being. The P.A bundle ...brough from these guys, no problem [url="https://www.absolutemusic.co.uk/rcf-art-310-a-mk3-active-pa-speaker-bundle.html?source=googleshopping&sku=rcfart310amk3bun1&gclid=COT__N3c_MICFSbHtAodgGAAfg"]https://www.absolutemusic.co.uk/rcf-art-310-a-mk3-active-pa-speaker-bundle.html?source=googleshopping&sku=rcfart310amk3bun1&gclid=COT__N3c_MICFSbHtAodgGAAfg[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.T Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 On account of where we are based in West Cornwall, we don't have the luxury of trying equipment. ...and as we all know, gear always sounds different in a gig situation. With that in mind, I am concerned about taking a chance on the Alto's. ...if they are not up to the job, my name could be 'mud'. The RCF' 10's are looking favourite (and a fairly safe bet), three of them for around a grand should not break the bank. She should be able to sell her Mackie's and her powered monitor to recoup at least half of that cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I think the RCFs will see you ok. 10s aren't my favourite but given the fact you are looking for lightweight and portable and only using for vocals, I think it's a sensible compromise. To put your mind at rest, I've never thought as RCF as particularly harsh - I consider them fairly well rounded and surprisingly good in the bass response, considering that ART stuff is in plastic boxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 RCF ART 3xx series vs 7xx series - an interesting comparison. For the 12" & 15" units, the 7 series blows the 3 series away hugely - not least in terms of weight. I replace a pair of ART 325 with ART 722 - *much* better. The 325 was surprisingly weak at the bottom end - the 722 was much stronger here and everywhere else. The only edge the 325 had was a *slight* amount more volume. With the 10s, though, it felt much closer. I've got 4 x ART 710, which are astonishing for their size and weight (note the current Mk 2 710s are over 2.5kg heavier, which is a shame). In the end, the 710s stole it, but it was close run. They had just a little more level, plus a little more bottom end than the 310s. Bizarrely, these 710s had a stronger sounding bottom end than the 325s - despite being under half the weight. (Can you tell, I've spend too long evaluating the different products in the RCF ART line...) It's a *big* price jump from the Alto TS110 to the ART 310, mind. If you were tempted to go that way, the extra for the ART 710 is probably worth it (though, if you could get the original 710s, you'd save on weight and lose nothing in performance). Unfortunately for you, the 710s and 310s seem to hold their second hand value very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 [quote name='Alec' timestamp='1420467942' post='2649616'] For the 12" & 15" units, the 7 series blows the 3 series away hugely [/quote] You heard the 745? Quite remarkable for a plastic box! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1420468077' post='2649618'] You heard the 745? Quite remarkable for a plastic box! [/quote] No, but I can imagine! Wasn't that impressed by the 725, really - only a little more bottom end extension than the 722, and nowhere near as nice on mids. You also have to bear in mind the size of the 15" 7 series - these things are the size of a small house!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 745 certainly a step up from the 725. In fact, I think that RCF have killed off the 725 now and presumably pushing the 745. Bass response is good too - in fact, I reckon most DJs could go out with a pair of these and not bother with a sub. Hmm... maybe I should make a bass rig out of these... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.T Posted January 19, 2015 Author Share Posted January 19, 2015 My singer bought one of the Alto TS110's to try, on the basis that it could be used as a monitor if it was not up to the job of replacing her Mackie's. We tried it out and were fairly impressed, so she bought another one, and gigged with them on Saturday night. The band all agreed that the Alto's sounded clearer and crisper than the Mackie 15's she had been using. She will now buy a third Alto and use two of them for the PA and one as a monitor. Cheers to everyone who posted in this thread, we are now sorted. ...and my singer has saved a few quid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Ace - glad to hear it! It's always difficult to pitch at the right level. For some people, a Peavey PA would be a dream, others wouldn't dream of anything less than £1k per cab RCF etc. And then others would sneer at anything less than D&B Audioteknik or L'Acoustics at £££££. I had a sneaking feeling that the Altos might hit your price performance point, and still give the level you need, along with the portability. Thanks for coming back and reporting how you ended up. Must get to hear some of these Altos myself at some point... Edited January 20, 2015 by Alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepbass5 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I have used passive Peavey's 12's and 15's for over 25 years no probs, but a year ago started using my sons RCF312 12" actives and found the vocal clarity to be noticable. We also only use PA for vocals + 3 x active monitors. They are not light speakers but better than a 15. But i would still consider a passive Peavey impulse 1012 system and seperate amp light and good components. note, not the cheaper PR series Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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