Sparky Mark Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) Here is a photo of two lm3s. 2011 model on the left and a 2013 on the right. Can anyone explain the reduction in the size of the power amp section of the newer one? Edited December 17, 2014 by Sparky Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) Progress? I would expect there to be a lot of R&D going on in the D class amp world. ..... and in the analog amp world. Edited December 10, 2014 by chris_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Mark Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 Agreed, but the lm3 is supposed to have an analogue power amp? Could this be reduced in size this much and retain the character the lm3 is known for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Don't know without an A/B comparison. Perhaps it's a cost-cutting exercise? Is one Italian and the other Indonesian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Mark Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) Both Italian. At first I thought that they were using the power amp from the big bang which has a smaller footprint but that is a class d and the lm3 is still supposed to be analogue. Edited December 10, 2014 by Sparky Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Ask Marco? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Mark Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 Good idea, I will email [email="[email protected]"][email protected][/email] and report back here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 [quote name='Sparky Mark' timestamp='1418237405' post='2628356'] Good idea, I will email [email="[email protected]"][email protected][/email] and report back here. [/quote] If you have facebook, Please post it on the "Markbass Amps And Cabs" group, Riccardo and Marco tend to respond to stuff on there, and a lot of the MB enthusiasts (including myself) would find it interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Mark Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 Unfortunately I don't do Bookface but feel free to use my photo. I should say that both these heads are Combo Head 2s (which are LM3s) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_S Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 [quote name='Sparky Mark' timestamp='1418215665' post='2628014'] Both Italian. [/quote] I recently removed the combo head 2 from my Indonesian cmd121p and it's got the same reduced innards. I was replacing it with an Italian lm800 so I didn't draw the comparison at the time, but now you point it out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Mark Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 The CMD121P is the newer one, but the serial number label on the back of the head says made in Italy. I wonder whether the guts are made in Indonesia but the combos are assembled in Italy and Markbass are still claiming the 'made in Italy' bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) I think the parts have long been sourced "worldwide" and then initially assembled in Italy and now Indonesia. Marco is "Marco Markbass" on here but he hasn't visited for some time. A PM perhaps? Edited December 10, 2014 by yorks5stringer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Mark Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 The real point of my original post was to try to understand whether the newer design is the equal of the former. To quote an old saying "Everything can be made a bit cheaper. .......and a bit worse". If there is also a question over the country of manufacture marking that's another thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_S Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 [quote name='Sparky Mark' timestamp='1418255554' post='2628621'] The real point of my original post was to try to understand whether the newer design is the equal of the former. To quote an old saying "Everything can be made a bit cheaper. .......and a bit worse". If there is also a question over the country of manufacture marking that's another thing. [/quote] I doubt there'll be any question over the sticker accurately reflecting where the thing was made.. Obviously I don't know, but I'd find it much easier to believe that they just refined the design for whatever reason towards the end of production in Italy and then passed that now-current design / tooling etc. to the Indonesian factory to carry on making. As for better / worse, I bought the combo with the intention of swapping the head out, so beyond "it works" I can't comment - my only experiences are with Italian era lm2, lm800 and f1 heads. Still.. be interesting if you do find out what changed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I've posted this on the MB Facebook page, it will be interesting to see what has been changed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Mark Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) [size=5][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][sub]I have received a reply from Riccardo:-[/sub] [sub]Hi Mark,[/sub] [sub]thanks for writing and for choosing Markbass.[/sub] [sub]During the years we always work on our products development, improving them with some new components with advanced tech specs to offer the best quality as we want only the best for our customers!!![/sub] [sub]Thank you once again.[/sub] [sub]Riccardo[/sub][/font][/size] Edited December 11, 2014 by Sparky Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Sparky Mark' timestamp='1418303335' post='2628946'] I have received a reply from Riccardo: [/quote] That's pretty much what he said on FB. Not a very satisfying answer really as I'm sure they've done whatever they've done to improve it somehow. But this doesn't answer any questions! Edited December 11, 2014 by chrismuzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 a lot less heat sinking on the new one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Looking at where the cooling fan is, with the extra space found within the 2013 model, it looks like that would be more efficient than the airflow through the cramped arrangement of the earlier 2011 design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Has anyone heard of any problems with the 2013 model in the year that has passed since? That would be the bottom line really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Mark Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 I guess I was hoping that we might have a few technical BCers who would be aware of amplifier developments that would allow such a reduction in heatsinking whilst maintaining 500w at 4ohms. I hope that the headroom hasn't been reduced as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Mark Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1418309835' post='2629026'] Has anyone heard of any problems with the 2013 model in the year that has passed since? That would be the bottom line really. [/quote] I had to re solder one of the internal wires on the 1/4 inch speaker output socket which was causing an intermittent fault ie no output. Been fine ever since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Presume one of the differences is the power output transistor used which is why the heat sink design has changed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 You seem to be making the assumption that the amp with the most stuff in it has to be better in some way. If Markbass are doing their job properly, and IME they usually do, I don't see any reason to expect a technical upgrade to be anything other than just that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1418311868' post='2629059'] You seem to be making the assumption that the amp with the most stuff in it has to be better in some way. If Markbass are doing their job properly, and IME they usually do, I don't see any reason to expect a technical upgrade to be anything other than just that. [/quote] This. I reckon the heatsink thing is the most plausible. They are proud of the markbass sound and reliability so I don't believe they would make any changes that would have a negative effect on them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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