Fiddled to death

[Wonky2]

I recently splashed out and bought myself a mesa walkabout 15 and matching mesa wa15 ext cab.
I had landed myself something special and was really chuffed with it.
Fantastic bit of kit in every way.
But having lived with it for a few weeks I'm really struggling with the parametric eq and literally dementing myself with the sound. I end up fiddling with it all night.

I'm frustrated to death with the fact I have a great bass and a fantastic amp and yet I still find it hard to dial in a simple tone!!

It's me, not the gear, it's got to be......I think if just got hung up about it now.....

I have dialled in the example tone settings set out in the mesa manual , tried my own variations, but still seem to be continually fiddling with the parametric EQ...

Tonight I have literally done my own head in with it and fear that this amp is not for me.....

The tones which it will produce really are rediculasly good but I seem to be unable to dial out the unwanted frequencies and when I try to sort them out I just end up making it worse !!!

I think it may be because I'm only running it at low volumes ?


Guess I need simplicity. May go back to ampeg which is not nearly as "full" or rich a sound, but just so simple to dial in tones.
It's not the amp its me.

Anyone else struggle with this or am I just an idiot?

(I'll accept suggestions that I am an idiot since the amps reputation is that is is one of the best combo' money can buy)


Edited to show new signature - ad to follow shortly.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Wonky2

[discreet]

Don't sell up yet! I'd take a step back and live with it for a bit longer. Are you making these adjustments solo, or in a band context? You are unlikely to be able to dial out 'unwanted' frequencies if it's not obvious to you which they are... I've always found parametric EQ most useful for adjusting tone according to the inherent sound of various rooms when playing live - as a corrective measure rather than tone shaping as such. Parametric EQ takes time to understand. You learnt to play your bass, now learn to play your amp. Patience!
Learn by listening... if it sounds good then it [i]is[/i] good.

Edited November 20, 2014 by discreet

[Twincam]

Ok i can fully relate to all this. As many times ive been up all night (sometimes till 6am), tormenting myself over things like eq settings and recently the action on my bass or funny over tones etc etc. And generally doing my own head in big time. I truly hate things with too many options for me to play around with as i end up going in circles and have learnt that doing my head in is not enjoyable.

While you should avoid a knee jerk reaction. You don't want to always be thinking oh if i tweak this and that, it will sound better as you will always be messing around with settings and not in an enjoyable way either.

Give it a few weeks and if its still doing your head in and nothing has changed then get shot of it. Anyhow there is plenty more amps in the sea, as they say.

[Tdw]

Maybe it would help if you could relate the eqs to typical bass amp controls, ive not seen the parametriq eq on the mesa but for example a bass control might be centered at between about 50 and 120 hz, a mid about 400 - 1000 hz and high about 4000 - 7000 hz.

[Dad3353]

[size=4]My tuppence-worth would be to set the parametric controls to centre; all of them. Play with the amp, using only the 'standard' tone controls at will, for several weeks. Ignore the parametric during this time. The idea is to accustom your ears/feeling/playing to the sound of your equipment. Then decide what (if any...) tone shaping is wanted for any one occasion, after this time lapse. It could be for a particular bass line, or practice room, or venue. Dial in the frequency that requires attention (only one...), and gradually add or subtract that frequency. Play with the new settings for a while, then go back to 'neutral'. Repeat on a weekly(..?) basis, one adjustment at a time, and you'll soon be speeding up the process. The ears have to adjust to the 'normal' sound first, then you can train them to appreciate the extra fine tuning from the parametric if you go slow and steady. A whole night twiddling the knobs is a night wasted, imo. Maybe I could have phrased that better..? Sorry. Patience is the key, as that's a first-rate rig.
Hope this helps.[/size]

Edited November 20, 2014 by Dad3353

[wateroftyne]

I always found the WA12 to be a bit flubby around the bottom. I imagine the 15 would be a bit of a struggle in the wrong room...

[lojo]

You might find it comes alive when you play it with a band

[xgsjx]

I'm glad this isn't a Jim'll Fix It thread.

Getting a great tone at home is pointless if you play in a band. I found that out by spending ages setting things up, getting to a rehearsal & finding I didn't like the sound & put everything to flat.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1416468944' post='2610432']
Getting a great tone at home is pointless if you play in a band. I found that out by spending ages setting things up, getting to a rehearsal & finding I didn't like the sound & put everything to flat.
[/quote]

Tru dat.

I had a loan of a fairly large 15" recently. When I was tinkering with it in the living room, it sounded weak and boxy.

But at the gig, where it had room to breathe, it was completely different. It opened right up and sounded huge.

[discreet]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1416468944' post='2610432']
Getting a great tone at home is pointless if you play in a band. I found that out by spending ages setting things up, getting to a rehearsal & finding I didn't like the sound & put everything to flat.
[/quote]

Quite! Juxtaposition is a 'thing' with sound as well as colour...

[EssentialTension]

The EQ you need is dependent on the room you are in and the sound of the other musicians,

I have had a Mesa Walkabout for about four yesrs and the parametrics almost always remain flat,

[Conan]

Maybe simplicity is what you crave? I traded a Marcus Miller Jazz bass for that very reason - the East J-retro circuitry in it just offered too many tonal options so I spend ages fiddling with it instead of playing it!

The main reason I like my Hartke LH500 is because of its simplicity. Volume, bass, mid and treble. That's it. All settings are usable, and there is very little to fiddle with. They also have a good core tone and plenty of volume...

Maybe see if you can borrow one and give it a shot? If you were a bit closer you'd be welcome to try mine...

Edited November 20, 2014 by Conan

[Conan]

[quote name='Wonky2' timestamp='1416442922' post='2610378']Edited to show new signature - ad to follow shortly.
[/quote]

I'd be careful with that... Advertising in one's sig is not really the done thing old bean!

Edited November 20, 2014 by Conan

[Kiwi]

What bass are you using with it? I see a status in your avatar but a fender in your signature. Also - did you try before you bought? What kind of music do you play?

In my experience, basses with a lot of mids (like Status) or are woolly/scooped sounding (e.g. Smiths) sound more articulate through Class D amps. Vintage type basses like Fenders sound more articulate (and fatter) with US rock-orientated amps, which I'd consider the Boogie to be an example of.

Start from that point before fiddling with the eq. or you'll be messing around for ever trying to hear things that the set up can't provide.

When it comes to the eq. there are many reasons why you won't get consistent results which others have mentioned above - room acoustics, speaker direction, floor/stage construction, proximity to corners or other reflective surfaces etc. all contribute to very audible differences in tone. If you have reflective surfaces, think about dialling back the volume a bit to clean things up.

Finally, the parametric is OK for dealing with room acoustics - use it to knock back frequencies that are too prominent and see if that helps.

[TimR]

Parametric EQ is a difficult beast to master.

Set all level dials to their '0' position ie no cut or boost.

Then set one to full cut and while letting a note ring, slowly sweep It's frequency dial from low to high. Then repeat with full boost. Then set the cut/boost back to '0'.

Repeat with all four frequency ranges. At the end of the process you should have a good idea of what each frequency range sounds like.

You can use eq for two reasons.
Cut problem frequencies in certain environments
Shape the sound.

Don't get the two confused.

Try not to cut or boost any frequency by more than 3-6dB.

Hope I'm not teaching you to suck eggs.

[TimR]

.

Edited November 20, 2014 by TimR

[chris_b]

Hi, what is wrong? What exactly is the problem you're trying to sort out?

As has been said, put all tone controls to 12 o'clock, forget about the para eq for now and just make small adjustments to get a sound you like. Until that works I'd also forget the extension cab.

Don't try to make it sound like your Ampeg. It won't.

About 15 years ago I spent a fortune on a 400+ and 2 Boogie cabs and I couldn't get a sound I liked. In the end I replaced the amp with an SVT3-PRO and gigged that for 10 years. Unfortunately, sometimes even the best gear doesn't work out!

[xgsjx]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1416470658' post='2610447']
I'd be careful with that... Advertising in one's sig is not really the done thing old bean!
[/quote]

Unless the ad is a link to your existing Basschat ad.

It was raised in a different thread (not in relation to mine) & I queried it as I had never heard of such a thing.
It's perfectly acceptable to put a link in your sig to an ad you place on BC, but it's a Nono to post an ad in your sig that isn't in the "For Sale" section.

[Wonky2]

Thanks for the very useful comments guys....

My bass is a fender jazz with flats on. I got rid of the status as again the controls were just too complex for my liking.

The room is a bog standard rehearsal room with a solid floor, but poor sound in general. I haven't used the ext cab yet.

The sound I'm getting even with everything set flat is wooly... Even slight adjust Kent can mess up the frequencies so bad the sound is "wobbling" ??? Honestly, sounds like a Leslie rotary cabinet at times...

What I have noted is that when the band goes out for a cig, i stay and try to find a better sound. I tend to give it a bit more well as its just me in the room. After this the sound improves...... Do I need to get any valves hot perhaps ?

Last night after switching from muffled and wooly to wobbly and out of shape, then clear and middy but all bottom end lost.... I lost patience and plugged into a cheap ampeg rocket bass 100. Instantly the tone was spot on and easily shapable.

I understand the need for patience but its just got me so frustrated......

I tried sweeping through the frequencies individually untill I could hear a prominent increase in the sound/ frequency, then i cut the volume to that dial. Have I got that wrong? Bottom knob frequency t nob cut/boost?

The status i had was my dream bass I'd wanted since being a kid but when I got it it just did my heD in, great bass, to complex for me tho.... This amp may be the same.

At home, I've got some absolute wicked tones from it... But with full band its a mess.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Wonky2

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Wonky2' timestamp='1416504164' post='2610987']
The room is a bog standard rehearsal room with a solid floor, but poor sound in general. I haven't used the ext cab yet.
[/quote]

The Walkabout isn't going to shine in that kind of environment. It needs room to breathe.

[Happy Jack]

Not meaning to go off topic here, but are you sure it's you?

You don't mention anywhere your band's line-up.

5/6 years ago I had a massive problem with my sound at rehearsals - whatever I did there was far too much bass and the basslines sounded horribly woolly and boomy. I threw money at the problem for a few months before discovering that "my" problem was actually the keyboard player's left hand.

Our line-up in that band now has two guitars and no keys, which is a huge improvement, but there have been occasions where a fuzzy Les Paul sound played near the nut has sounded like problems with the bass again.

[Wonky2]

I used it in a studio last week, di'd out the back and the recorded sound is great. (Not sure if the id is pre or post eq?)

Will persevere for now and I'm sure it will come right. My fear is using it in a gigging environment and having such a floppy sound.... I'd be mortified !!!!

I've searched the net on more detailed instruction of how to use the parametric eq.... Not much out there, a video would be really good.

My next step is to get someone else to play my bass whilst i make adjustments on the dials as its hard to do just let titling notes ring out.

[TimR]

I had the same thing with a guitarist using a flanger on a band I was running the PA for.

[Wonky2]

Good point, there's a drummer (mostly brushes), acoustic guitar and strat being flat picked and slide (quite clean a sound)

Its deffo me as the sound even begins to wobble. Sounds mad but yes, it wobbles ! Wha Wha Wha Wha Wha Wha....... If that makes sense ?

Boomy and wooly.....

I like deep bottom end with clear punch.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Wonky2

[BigAlonBass]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1416505774' post='2611001']
Not meaning to go off topic here, but are you sure it's you?

5/6 years ago I had a massive problem with my sound at rehearsals - whatever I did there was far too much bass and the basslines sounded horribly woolly and boomy. I threw money at the problem for a few months before discovering that "my" problem was actually the keyboard player's left hand.

Our line-up in that band now has two guitars and no keys, which is a huge improvement, but there have been occasions where a fuzzy Les Paul sound played near the nut has sounded like problems with the bass again.
[/quote]

I spent a couple of years in a Band like this, trying to impress on the two guitarists that they were both too 'bassy' for the songs. I was getting dirty looks from the Manager, audiences and everyone else, as there were "Bass feedback" noises constantly throughout the Set.
Until the night I plugged the Bass lead into my mouth, turned the strings to face my body, and "played" the wood on the back of it. The "bass feedback" continued even when I stopped doing that, drank a pint onstage, and did arm-stretches to emphasise my point!
The message finally got taken seriously.....