elephantgrey Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I have a compression question, so i thought id slightly derail this thread a bit instead of starting yet another compression thread. I have a vocoder (EHX voice box), but every time we use it the sound guy shouts at us cause of the jump in volume, problem being that we use it both as a vocoder and an effect make our singer sound like a girl etc. My thinking is, I dont really want to just hard limited it, as it will then loose all of its dynamics, would side chaining a compressor with the clean signal allow me to cut the volume back dynamically so that it matches the volume of the clean signal over all of the modes we use it in, and also keeps in the dynamics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 no, a sidechain is used to compress one signal, based on the dynamics of another. For example, put a compressor on a bass guitar, side chain in a kick drum, and every time the kick drum kicks, the bass will be compressed. I'm not sure what the problem is. Are you saying that when you use it as a vocoder, it's fine, but when in the "gender bender" mode, it's too loud? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elephantgrey Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Well they are both too loud, but the vocoder is louder than the gender bender. I could just put it in a loop with a volume pot, but dont really trust the singer with that. It would be best if i could get a pedal to match the volume of the two signals. So a sidechained compressor takes the main signal, and lowers the volume (before makeup gain) based on the volume of the sidechain signal. Maybe what i want is an expander, so that the sidechained signal's volume is increased based on the sidechain signal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badderer Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 perhaps i have missed something, is there a reason you cannot just turn down the volume level of the vocoder to make sure it is at a level that matches you're singer when not using it? sure a bit of compression/limiting afterwards would help to control it, but can't you just turn the vocoder volume down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elephantgrey Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Well, the problem comes when we use two effects modes, both at different volumes (with no master volume control on the pedal), so that i could shove it in a loop, and set the volume that way, but then when we change the effect from the pedal, the volume would be different. Also, i have a feeling part of the problem is that it would require volume changes mid set, meaning that the singer would have to work something electrical. Also the vocoder effect takes a line from the guitarist, so that level changes on a whim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badderer Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 well, you could see if a pedal modder would be happy to mod the pedal and add a volume knob. the only way around a volume change mid set is you either get a 2nd pedal and mod that one too, or you get pre-agreed settings for that song and in-between the songs the guitarist and singer make sure their pedals are in pre-agreed positions and you agree these with the sound engineer. if you can't get them to sort that then i'd be a bit dubious on the whole idea as you are going to have a really poor sound / volume experience for the audience. you could just heavily compress / limit the vocals through the desk assuming there is a compressor/limiter on the desk. But you need to think about it from the audience / sound engineers point of view. you're probably best of giving up on the dynamic range issues or be prepared to throw a bit more money at it and get some extra pedals to make the idea work properly. you won't just be able to make this work properly on the cheap (unless you're already using a Laptop / DAW / Audio Interface set up for part of your band set up, in which case just run the vocals through your DAW). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subrob Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Low threshold 4:1 compression is always on for me. But, in the metal context I'm up against fairly compressed distorted guitars (3 of). My sonic box is about big enough for a pair of trainers, so the objective must be to fill it... In the other band, AIC covers (vs 1 distorted guitar, I actually really enjoy the control and fullness it seems to lend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Are you giving the soundman a clean DI as well as the effected signal? If you start trying to use compression to squish the louder setting to match the quieter setting, you could end up with a load of feedback, which would then require a gate. I think the suggestion of a pedal mod is a good one. It's a bit sh*t that the pedal has the option to switch presets, but doesn't let you set the level of each preset individually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricksterphil Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 I've been wondering about compression so picked up this thread for a look-see. Think I might have a dabble......haven't bought a new pedal for....ooh...at least 6 months It may end up in the Ricksterphil pedal graveyard (a drawer in the wardrobe in my practice room) or not - who knows I will report back in the fullness of time (or when I can be arsed) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubbersoul Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Resurrecting an old thread and about to ask a stupid question: I apologise. I play pick style with a fair bit of od and occasional fuzz. Is a compressor of any use to me at all? Told you it was stupid 😶 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Wow - this is such a good / useful thread! (And have to 'fess enjoying the Hamlet reference by the OP! ) Moderators - perhaps this thread should be pinned? I completely get that a sound engineer will compress signals for studio recordings and this will be an automatic part of his recording process. But playing live? The guitarist in one of my bands mentioned that the bassist in his other band ONLY uses a compressor pedal and nothing else; and the guitarist in my other band (who used to also play bass in a previous life) is also a fan of compressors. So I've been trying to get my head around whether to add a compressor to my pedal board or not? Drive / distortion effects are already compressed and although a clean sustain would be nice, a dedicated effect for that seems to be what's needed there rather than being a side effect of compression? Given that I am playing my bass in passive mode, my amp and cab are pretty decent, I don't slap and pop much and am not using a plectrum and actually I quite like not being overridden by a pedal when I want to play loudly or quietly...I'm struggling to see the need or benefit from a compressor in a live situation? And does anyone in the audience actually hear the difference between a compressed bass and an uncompressed bass, anyway? I've listened to various YouTube clips and with good quality / expensive compressors (e.g. Cali 76) there is very little difference in the sound; with cheaper compressors (e.g. TC Spectracomp) there seems to be an annoying increase in volume of the quieter notes and the opportunity for subtlety seems to be lost? Apologies that I'm almost certainly just repeating what a number of my wiser and more experienced BCs have said, but I guess I'm coming down on the "No" side of this particular referendum debate! Ok now to face down my dear guitarists in the two bands I'm in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzyvee Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) I don't use them but I'm sure our sound engineer does FOH and as he's an expert his settings will be far more beneficial to the music than mine. Edited May 2, 2017 by jazzyvee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project_c Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 I use a Seymour Duncan Studio Bass compressor at home to stop clipping and because it makes my dry signal sound better. I plug into a mac and practice using headphones so getting a decent dry signal is really important to the way i play. I also took the pedal to a gig last week for the first time, mainly because during our last gig I found that I was not loud enough during some songs and too loud during others. It definitely helped sort that out, I could play soft during mellow tunes and dig in during solos, but my volume stayed more or less in the same place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoEVs Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 [quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1493664977' post='3289852'] I completely get that a sound engineer will compress signals for studio recordings and this will be an automatic part of his recording process. But playing live? [/quote] Speaking as both a live and studio engineer, if I was limited to compressing one instrument and one instrument only - it would be the bass. Unless you're playing as part of a classical ensemble or jazz quartet where dynamic range is of the upmost importance then compression will be used across the board anyway. Speaking as a bass player, it just tightens up all the little nuances and makes everything a lot more even and I don't think I'd ever be in a situation where I wouldn't be compressing my bass, live or in the studio. Either way - whether you've compressed your bass or not on stage I can guarantee that 99% of the time the live engineer is squeezing the life out of the bass through the PA, it really depend on your personal taste and whether you like the sound of your own bass compressed on stage. Out at FOH it's not necessarily a question of whether the audience would know whether the bass is compressed or not, almost everyone standing there wouldn't be able to tell the difference let alone really care about it. But they will notice a big farty uncompressed bass signal coming through the PA, whacking them across the chops and otherwise not playing nicely with their ear drums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 (edited) [quote name='CoEVs' timestamp='1493884709' post='3291465'] Speaking as both a live and studio engineer, if I was limited to compressing one instrument and one instrument only - it would be the bass. Unless you're playing as part of a classical ensemble or jazz quartet where dynamic range is of the upmost importance then compression will be used across the board anyway. Speaking as a bass player, it just tightens up all the little nuances and makes everything a lot more even and I don't think I'd ever be in a situation where I wouldn't be compressing my bass, live or in the studio. Either way - whether you've compressed your bass or not on stage I can guarantee that 99% of the time the live engineer is squeezing the life out of the bass through the PA, it really depend on your personal taste and whether you like the sound of your own bass compressed on stage. Out at FOH it's not necessarily a question of whether the audience would know whether the bass is compressed or not, almost everyone standing there wouldn't be able to tell the difference let alone really care about it. But they will notice a big farty uncompressed bass signal coming through the PA, whacking them across the chops and otherwise not playing nicely with their ear drums. [/quote] Yup, that all makes very good sense, particularly where PA speakers are having to cope with a dynamic range of low bass right up to high female vocals. I would, however, challenge the suggestion that a high quality bass amp in good condition that has plenty of headroom should ever need to churn out a "farty" sound in a live setting. Never experienced that once with my Markbass AC 500W when playing live. Edited May 4, 2017 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandad Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 (edited) [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1415725769' post='2603102'] Compression is very misunderstood I wrote this a while ago to help people set up a compressor for bass:- [url="http://web.archive.org/web/20130215154741/http://blog.basschat.co.uk/setting-up-a-compressor/"]http://web.archive.o...p-a-compressor/[/url] I use compression live, low ratio very low threshold to just increase the fatness a touch, and to sculpt the transients if I'm slapping. FOH would be great, except I don't trust most live sound people with a bass tone. Mixing I use all sorts of tools to improve everything, but compression and eq are the cornerstone of good mixing. [/quote] Thank you for the link. A very clear and helpful explanation. I always use a little compression, (my amp is a TCE BG250-208 with Spectracomp), I find it thickens up the sound set around 9 o'clock. Edited May 4, 2017 by grandad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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