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Cultural Difference,The Tip Jar

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Few years ago there was a couple of pubs where they would pass a hat round after you had finished to tempt you to do a couple more songs. This works well as by then most people are drunk and more generous. I remember being paid 60 quid as a solo artist about 15 years ago. Then the hat went round for me to do 2 more songs and there was nearly 100 quid in the hat!!!

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[quote name='MoonBassAlpha' timestamp='1413017473' post='2574135']
Used to see it years ago, in places where the audience got in for nowt. Not seen this for years, but I think it's a really nice idea, if you've had a really great time. Show a little extra appreciation, after all, it's not mandatory, like door fees.
[/quote]

Interesting, for the most part the venues that hire bar bands never charge a cover. It's only the originals clubs that have the back room where the band plays that charge a cover. Usually $5.00. And you don't need your man at the door because there's never enough money to argue over. Milwaukee is a challenging city for the originals bands.

Another interesting note. When I've seen originals bands, they are usually playing for free and they never use tip jars and you would think they could really use some extra cash.

4 hour bar gigs are not easy for any of us, It's a lot of work, especially when you provide sound and lighting.It takes us well over an hour to get the band ready for the stage and over an hour to tear down.



Blue

Edited by blue

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If you passed a jar round the places we used to play it would almost certainly be launched at the stage at some point. If you're getting paid, it's a bit cheeky IMO and gives the wrong message.

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[quote name='Protium' timestamp='1413056638' post='2574618']
If you passed a jar round the places we used to play it would almost certainly be launched at the stage at some point. If you're getting paid, it's a bit cheeky IMO and gives the wrong message.
[/quote]

Understood,and this cultural difference is really interesting. What is the message your giving when you put out a tip jar in the UK?

Overall we have tip friendly culture in the USA. I think they know we aren't getting rich and I think we actually like tipping. For example , I had my hair cut, it was 10.00. Now, I know these salons don't pay these ladies squat, so I always leave a tip of $10.00. And I always leave a tip in the tip jar when I'm out checking out other bands.

Blue

Edited by blue

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I never understood why you have to tip and to pay in the same time?
Saw this in India...
To pay a drink to a band that plays like hell, ok but tipping a service that anyway I pay... Kind of weird for me.
Maybe I should try with the police when they're stopping me for overspeed...lol
Best

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'Tipping', to me, is akin to busking, with the guitar case open on the ground. You're relying on the goodwill of the folks around. It's a half-step up from begging.
If a restaurant owner wants decent staff, he should pay them decent money, and the healthcare contributions etc which go with it. Tipping as a revenue evades this. It has no place in a decent modern society, imo.
Just my tuppence-worth.

(...but if you could see your way clear to spare a copper or two, I'd be much obliged, sir...)

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[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1413062248' post='2574672']
'Tipping', to me, is akin to busking, with the guitar case open on the ground. You're relying on the goodwill of the folks around. It's a half-step up from begging.
If a restaurant owner wants decent staff, he should pay them decent money, and the healthcare contributions etc which go with it. Tipping as a revenue evades this. It has no place in a decent modern society, imo.
Just my tuppence-worth.

(...but if you could see your way clear to spare a copper or two, I'd be much obliged, sir...)
[/quote]

I agree. Though, I should say, I don't understand how the whole tipping thing actually works in the USA. Do they pay income tax on tips?

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Definitely not done here in Northern Ireland, and it'd be a bit odd. Having a jar or bucket out seems to wreak of obligation which would put punters off here. I do remember a guy literally shoving a tenner in my pocket for playing 'the gambler' and while the sentiment was nice it was pretty awkward feeling. More common is a charge for requests, ie tired crowd pleasers the band doesnt want to play.

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Interesting culture difference.
More than once in the UK, at a proper paid gig, a punter has paid us an extra £100 to play for a further 30mins. I wouldn't normally call this a tip, maybe an overtime payment?
OTOH, I was invited up to jam a few numbers in Memphis TN and afterwards was told to get myself a drink with cash from the 'Tip Hat' front of stage.

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Isn't tipping in the us just to subsidise lower pay ? Think beginning of reservoir dogs. You say this yourself whdn you observe the haircut pay situation

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Is tipping in the US not a result of having a minimum wage that is too low to live on? I've also been told that the cost of living is much lower as well so buyers can afford to tip.
I've seen it during the edinburgh festival when loads of venues have back to back bands from mid-afternoon til late and they pass a bucket round, but never any other time. I appreciate the sentiment but I've been in one of those bands and I felt a little embarrassed about it, it is akin to begging in my eyes.

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Round here pubs pay upto £400 for a band... we can get £350 and I assume one or two do better.
The bar will put their drinks up to cover for live music and generally it works. You can tell which pubs are good music pubs
by the lenght of time they have been able to put on good music nights.
Depends on the business model... some pubs stay with local bands which they can get cheaper, but then to fill 2 nights
a week on a 3 month rota can get hard. If you ship in better bands, then they are more expensive and also want travel costs
so it is a fine line that only the Pub can really navigate. The better bands have to accpet they may subsidise other nights
and can't take everything they think they may be owed on their gig, and also the pub may put on a cheaper band at £150
so they have more money elsewhere. Not quite robbing Peter to pay Paul but you get the jist.

Punters are sensitive to paying higher drink prices and some want free entertainment as well as drink at usual prices.
Sometimes you can't win...
I tend to play pubs that I would drink in.. so I will support the venue even if I am not fussed about the band on that night.

Many bands will tell you there is nowhere to play... and moan about the local scene...but I don't always see them supporting
venues or other bands. It should be give and take..

If you are getting good enough money... then passing round the hat/jar is maybe asking too much from the audience, certainly if they are paying extra on drinks that night..

Edited by JTUK

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[quote name='blue' timestamp='1412981238' post='2573938']Comments or views on the "tip jar".[/quote]

The US has a far bigger [i]tips culture[/i] that the UK, or Europe in general. Especially the bit where tips are still expected, just not as high, for poor service.
I loved it, especially waiting staff that aren't slow at asking for tips. "Tipping etiquette" got a whole chapter of it's own in an NYC guide-book I was sent.

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[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1413020618' post='2574181']
I've been in bars where a pint glass goes round and everyone puts a pound in, but there wasn't any live music as far as I can recall!
[/quote]
I've been to one of those pubs, I waited all night for the band to come on and just kept putting another pound in the pint glass, we even went back the week after and stayed in there all night just to double check :lol:

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The guys playing/singing along to backing tracks in my local village pub sometimes have a tips jar, we turned up late one week as he was winding down so we threw in a few quid each and he played for another half hour, he was good and appeared to enjoy playing to people who were actually watching him compared to when we arrived.

Edited by stingrayPete1977

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[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1413117153' post='2575002']
I've been to one of those pubs, I waited all night for the band to come on and just kept putting another pound in the pint glass, we even went back the week after and stayed in there all night just to double check :lol:
[/quote]

Nice chatty girls...... and attractive though... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1413117153' post='2575002']

I've been to one of those pubs, I waited all night for the band to come on and just kept putting another pound in the pint glass, we even went back the week after and stayed in there all night just to double check :lol:
[/quote]
Wasn't an Irish bar was it?

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[quote name='TheSiberian' timestamp='1413060558' post='2574653']
I never understood why you have to tip and to pay in the same time?[/quote]

I don't think you have to tip anywhere regardless of the service. It's not mandatory.

Blue

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[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1413062248' post='2574672']
'Tipping', to me, is akin to busking, with the guitar case open on the ground. You're relying on the goodwill of the folks around. It's a half-step up from begging.
If a restaurant owner wants decent staff, he should pay them decent money, and the healthcare contributions etc which go with it. Tipping as a revenue evades this. It has no place in a decent modern society, imo.
Just my tuppence-worth.

(...but if you could see your way clear to spare a copper or two, I'd be much obliged, sir...)
[/quote]

Cultural difference. my band is your typical $100.00 a man bar/club band. Over here people put money in the tip jar only because they really got off on the band. I don't think buskers are receiving a set fee.

Blue

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[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1413108025' post='2574906']
Round here pubs pay upto £400 for a band... we can get £350 and I assume one or two do better.
The bar will put their drinks up to cover for live music and generally it works. You can tell which pubs are good music pubs
by the lenght of time they have been able to put on good music nights.
Depends on the business model... some pubs stay with local bands which they can get cheaper, but then to fill 2 nights
a week on a 3 month rota can get hard. If you ship in better bands, then they are more expensive and also want travel costs
so it is a fine line that only the Pub can really navigate. The better bands have to accpet they may subsidise other nights
and can't take everything they think they may be owed on their gig, and also the pub may put on a cheaper band at £150
so they have more money elsewhere. Not quite robbing Peter to pay Paul but you get the jist.

Punters are sensitive to paying higher drink prices and some want free entertainment as well as drink at usual prices.
Sometimes you can't win...
I tend to play pubs that I would drink in.. so I will support the venue even if I am not fussed about the band on that night.

Many bands will tell you there is nowhere to play... and moan about the local scene...but I don't always see them supporting
venues or other bands. It should be give and take..

If you are getting good enough money... then passing round the hat/jar is maybe asking too much from the audience, certainly if they are paying extra on drinks that night..
[/quote]

Getting [i][b]"Good Enough Money"[/b][/i]. For me, there's never enough "Good Enough Money" I like coming home with a feeling we had great performance and as much cash in my wallet as possible. It's a business.

I say; [i]"Nothing Wrong with Asking"[/i] and there is absolutely no pressure to tip.

As far as the off topic,[b] "[i]places to play"[/i][/b]. The clubs that do the work to establish themselves as a venue for live music and are true supporters of live music and draw in the few folks left that still understand and appreciate live rock music pay the going rate and and these are always cool places to play. Now we do still play those places that occasionally book a band, but it's not cool, mainly because their clientele is not there to see live music and they don't dig it when a band is playing. These gigs are, as expected a real drag. My opinion, you can't win over these folks that don't connect with or care about live music.

Another off topic comment,[i][b] "supporting other bands"[/b][/i]. I make it a point to go out and see the competition and other local live bands when I'm not gigging. It's something I've always enjoyed. I do not understand my musician friends that won't go out to see other bands, but complain when their bands have poor attendance at their gigs.

Much Respect,

Blue

Edited by blue

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[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1413124300' post='2575089']


Nice chatty girls...... and attractive though... :lol: :lol: :lol:
[/quote]
[quote name='wGraham' timestamp='1413124461' post='2575090']

Wasn't an Irish bar was it?
[/quote]

It may or may not have been the White Horse near Kings Cross Station, lol

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If they want you to play 4 hrs for $100, then I'd have no problem with a 'bonus'
but the pubs here already put money on the drinks to pay for the band..and they need
people to be willing to pay that... so to put around a hat/jar on top of that would not
be the most appropriate thing, possibly.
If they are talking about you playing another 30 mins or so, then of course, they would have to pay for that
but you know a pub set is 2x45mins for the fee. Other regions of the country might expect 2x1hrs but round here
it is 2x45mins for £250 for a decent-ish band if you bring people in..AND keep them.
For a pub to earn that £250 to pay for the band means you need enough people drinking for 2 hrs.
The mark-up on the beer can be 100% or more, but that doesn't take into account the other hourly costs.

As I said before, passing round the hat is mainly for jazz gigs where the core band would be on £50 per man ( x 4 )
and the guests would get the 'pot' but no pub band would work for that as ...and alluded to before .. who controls the
pot takings..???
A variation of that would be a standard fee of around £100 to 150 and a percentage of the takings... but again,
no band will take those gigs as no one may trust what the takings are..and 10% needs £1000 ( £100 ) just to get back up to
what you'll get elsewhere.
A couple of pubs here tried it..and got NO takers, IIRC.

Having said all that... some bands may help a venue out with being a tad flexible but they really [email="[email protected]"]AREN'T[/email] expecting to work
for less than their normal/minimum fee.

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[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1413137132' post='2575208']
It may or may not have been the White Horse near Kings Cross Station, lol
[/quote]
:lol: :lol:
Don't quite know it...but a gtr used to 'insist' we stop off at Brown's before our
gigs at Dover St Wine bar. The number of times we turned up at the venue
10mins before the start at 11:00pm ...well, it got a bit fraught at times... :lol: :lol;

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