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silverfoxnik

212s v 210s

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[quote name='alexclaber' post='28408' date='Jul 7 2007, 08:53 PM']Excellent!

Alex[/quote]

Cheers Alex - really appreciate the info and the help!

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[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='26524' date='Jul 3 2007, 02:30 PM']Your combo is basically the same configuration arrived at by Leo Fender in the late 1950s. The side by side 2x was used because it looked better than a cabinet high enough for the drivers to fit vertically. The fact that it was patently wrong to do so was never considered by Leo, because he was not an audio engineer and didn't know it was wrong. It continues to be the most popular configuration because the average customer isn't an audio engineer either.[/quote]

completely forgot i had posted on this, so sorry for not getting back to you.
so thanks BFM and alexclaber, i havent got another practice for 2 weeks but i will give it a go at the next one though i do expect to get some funny looks from the guys but as you say it should work alot better.
i'll report abck once i have tried it at volume. one otehr thing i will ask is will tipping it on its side affect the VU meter? yes i know alot of people say they don't work that well but mine seems to do a good job so will it being off its normal working plane will it give me funny readings?
cheers again guys.

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just to report back, stuck my combo on its side and apart from looking odd and getting some funny looks from the band it worked a treat. more punch everything was clearer and more defined and in all seemed louder cos i had to turn it down, vu meter still worked fine and i had to tweak my eq a bit cos of the slight sound change but all in all very good. the mid range really did project and the lower end seemed a bit tighter but that may just be me.
so if you have a 2x10 or 2x12 or 2xwhatever stick it on its side and enjoy.

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[quote name='lowhand_mike' post='33003' date='Jul 17 2007, 01:09 PM']just to report back, stuck my combo on its side and apart from looking odd and getting some funny looks from the band it worked a treat. more punch everything was clearer and more defined and in all seemed louder cos i had to turn it down, vu meter still worked fine and i had to tweak my eq a bit cos of the slight sound change but all in all very good. the mid range really did project and the lower end seemed a bit tighter but that may just be me.
so if you have a 2x10 or 2x12 or 2xwhatever stick it on its side and enjoy.[/quote]

Mike, did this translate to a better (or different) sound out front or just how you heard it on stage?

when i first got my 1210 which i know is different to your cab i read that putting it on its side would reduce the low end although it would make hearing myself easier. Just wondering as i have only tried it once and it did seem to loose some low end out front but that could have just been the way I heard it.

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[quote name='dave_bass5' post='33006' date='Jul 17 2007, 08:13 AM']Mike, did this translate to a better (or different) sound out front or just how you heard it on stage?

when i first got my 1210 which i know is different to your cab i read that putting it on its side would reduce the low end although it would make hearing myself easier. Just wondering as i have only tried it once and it did seem to loose some low end out front but that could have just been the way I heard it.[/quote]Cab orientation has no effect on the low end. What is affected is midrange, and midrange defines what we hear. When you change the midrange you also change the perception of what is happening in the bass.

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[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='33037' date='Jul 17 2007, 01:44 PM']Cab orientation has no effect on the low end. What is affected is midrange, and midrange defines what we hear. When you change the midrange you also change the perception of what is happening in the bass.[/quote]


Bill, i did mean that but you put it better.
Yes, i felt the midrange was louder (or stronger) and it did SEEM to over power the low end a bit more.
Also with my 1210 i had the port facing me and so the 10" driver was pointing up at me.

Thanks.

Edited by dave_bass5

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[quote name='dave_bass5' post='33050' date='Jul 17 2007, 02:08 PM']Bill, i did mean that but you put it better.
Yes, i felt the midrange was louder (or stronger) and it did SEEM to over power the low end a bit more.
Also with my 1210 i had the port facing me and so the 10" driver was pointing up at me.

Thanks.[/quote]

Whatever the 'science' of it, I definitely hear or get a better sound from my GK 210 on it's side. Great to have experts like Bill and Alex to help explain things more clearly to us less scientific folk!!

Nik

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the midrange projection was alot better, no noticeable falloff over distance (although to be honest i didn't walk too far away as my lead aint that long)
and we set up on the floor in the middle of the hall (over 7 feet away from the walls) and the low end was nice and tight, not so boomy. had to adjust the eq just cos of the change of the midrange.
the perception of lost low end is cos we can hear the mids much clearer, and they cut through, the bass is still there cos when i was stood next to the amp it was happily rumbling away.
this setup will benifit from adding a 1x15 just to boost the lows.
be interesting to see how this all works in a live situation and how the audience hear it, not got a gig for ages now though so that test will be a while.

but thanks again to alex and bill.

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[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='25579' date='Jul 1 2007, 12:50 PM']Hi Folks,

I've been using a Hughes & Kettner 4 x 10 that I bought from The Wigfinder General for a year now and it sounds great to me..It weighs a ton but that's worth it because it fills the room and can take anything you throw at it!

But the guys in my band want me to use something smaller on stage because of all the usual space issues at pub gigs etc, etc. So, I've been trying out my GK Backline 2 x 10 cab, but to my ears, it just doesn't have the depth to it that I like.

Would a 2 x 12 cab be a good way to go or is this just a case of me buying the right brand of 2 x 10 or re-adjusting my ears to a different, smaller sound???

I've even been looking at buying a 1 x 15 combo like the GK 700RB that's on sale here at the moment but am undecided what to do at the moment, so any advice much appreciated!

Cheers

Nik[/quote]

Have a look at the Mark Bass 2x10", the one with TWO front ports which is the larger 2x10. It has a lot of bottom end capacity, power handling and is 8 ohm so you could always add another 8 ohm cab. I use one of these as well with the smaller 2x10" Mark Bass Traveller cab. Big sound with both cabs running, and light weight.

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[quote name='mybass' post='34099' date='Jul 19 2007, 01:25 PM']Have a look at the Mark Bass 2x10", the one with TWO front ports which is the larger 2x10. It has a lot of bottom end capacity, power handling and is 8 ohm so you could always add another 8 ohm cab. I use one of these as well with the smaller 2x10" Mark Bass Traveller cab. Big sound with both cabs running, and light weight.[/quote]

Thanks mybass - will check it out!

Nik

P.S. As Alex and Bill (and others) have put some great technical info into this thread, does anyone think it's worth making a 'sticky'?

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[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='34356' date='Jul 19 2007, 09:32 PM']Thanks mybass - will check it out!

Nik

P.S. As Alex and Bill (and others) have put some great technical info into this thread, does anyone think it's worth making a 'sticky'?[/quote]

Things move fast here on Basschat!! Thanks...

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[quote name='alexclaber' date='Jul 4 2007, 02:03 PM' post='26982']
The turning a normal combo on its side thing works well too! My guitarist tends to use my drummer's old Sound City 2x12" at gigs, which I gather you can switch one of the speakers off, so he usually just uses the top driver:



It is a fantastic sounding beast even if half the features are broken (reverb, second channel, VU meter, etc)!

Alex

MB1. :)

OH MY GOD! never thought id see one of these again, i used to use one of these to play bass through, many moons ago,speakers were replaced with bass ones and it sounded ok. valve amp weighed a ton, mine was on wheels ,bought it for next to nothing, off manchester band The Cheetahs.

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I have used 12 inch cones for years. Originally Marshall 4x12 bass cabs and now the Hartke Pro 2200 2x12 cabs.

They are very nice indeed, very clean with plenty of sparkle.

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As I have just posted on the Hartke 212 review thread: on the basstasters site; I greatly prefer the tone of the 112 cabs to any of the 10 inch combinations.


What would the weight difference possibly be between a 212 (w/tweet) and a 115 cab?

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Hi Nik, I used a markbass front ported 2x10 with burning organ with a 5 string exclusively-

it was as big and bassy as I'd ever need- I still use the same combination now, it's perfect for 5 string and takes anything I can throw at it.

If you want to try it out, I'm only in Saltdean

R

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[quote name='mr_russ' post='47737' date='Aug 20 2007, 02:35 PM']Hi Nik, I used a markbass front ported 2x10 with burning organ with a 5 string exclusively-

it was as big and bassy as I'd ever need- I still use the same combination now, it's perfect for 5 string and takes anything I can throw at it.

If you want to try it out, I'm only in Saltdean

R[/quote]
Hi Russ

That's be great thanks - I'll PM you my mobile and we can arrange a time....

Nik

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I'm vastly being swayed over to 212 cabs. Just having one 212 is starting to sound much more economically, practically and tonally superior to having 115 and 210 cabs. Unless.... I prefer the sound of a 212 to a 115 and to any 10" driver combination; does anything magical happen when putting 10s with a 15?

Anyway, recommendations for a reasonably priced, available 212?

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[quote name='paul, the' post='51294' date='Aug 27 2007, 02:40 PM']I'm vastly being swayed over to 212 cabs. Just having one 212 is starting to sound much more economically, practically and tonally superior to having 115 and 210 cabs. Unless.... I prefer the sound of a 212 to a 115 and to any 10" driver combination; does anything magical happen when putting 10s with a 15?

Anyway, recommendations for a reasonably priced, available 212?[/quote]

For years I used a single 1x15 cab. Also 4x10. More recently I've used a single 1x15 or 1x15 plus 2x10, and lastly, a pair of 2x10 often stacked vertically, four speakers high and small footprint for little pub gigs.

Earlier this year I bought a Schroeder 1212L, 800 watts and a single cab solution. This suits me as I downsized the car to a Fiesta. If you buy two cabs like Markbass, EBS etc then the 1212L can work out cheaper as a single cab. Also lighter, louder (IME) punchier, more easily heard as a monitor and in the room.

I'v sold all my other cabs as the Schroeder does it all for me. Rock covers, blues, ballads. Sounds better live than in your front room.

I'm very happy with mine and would reccommend it BUT......... try to hear one before you buy, as always.
Frank

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[quote name='machinehead' post='52008' date='Aug 28 2007, 10:20 PM']For years I used a single 1x15 cab. Also 4x10. More recently I've used a single 1x15 or 1x15 plus 2x10, and lastly, a pair of 2x10 often stacked vertically, four speakers high and small footprint for little pub gigs.

Earlier this year I bought a Schroeder 1212L, 800 watts and a single cab solution. This suits me as I downsized the car to a Fiesta. If you buy two cabs like Markbass, EBS etc then the 1212L can work out cheaper as a single cab. Also lighter, louder (IME) punchier, more easily heard as a monitor and in the room.

I'v sold all my other cabs as the Schroeder does it all for me. Rock covers, blues, ballads. Sounds better live than in your front room.

I'm very happy with mine and would reccommend it BUT......... try to hear one before you buy, as always.
Frank[/quote]

That's sounds like the ideal cab to me. Any rig pics on BC?

I'd love to know which gear is generally thought as being warmer. I know that Epifani cabs sound considerably warmer to me than say an EA cab, but they come with a price tag.

This would make a great combo:


[url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/mark_bass_cmd_121h.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/mark_bass_cmd_121h.htm[/url]

Tiny footprint and weight, pup gigable and you could add a second 112 for larger gigs and speaker surface area.

A relatively cheap option would 1 or 2 be s/h Warwick 112 WCA neo cabs. Would love to try that with a juicy valve head. If Thomann sold these they would be about £220 new.

To be honest, I've yet to see a 12" option I've liked the styling of below the mega-expensive range. But that makes the searching all the more fun :)

Edited by paul, the

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If you think about it though, that Markbass combo is about the same size and weight as a Schroeder 1212 but you only need one 1212 to get the full output of say, a Markbass LMII amp.

One cab solution and cheaper than combo + 1x12 serparate cab. I couldn't fit two cabs in the car boot but now I don't need to.

I can hear and be heard better with the Schroeder than any other combination I've ever owned and played through.
Frank

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One thing that reoccurs every now and then on single, double and combo 12" cabs reviews is a lack of low end. That you can't get the power where you can feel it in your chest. Any comment from the 12" users?

They have my preference tonally, but do they lack live impact?

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[quote name='paul, the' post='52362' date='Aug 29 2007, 03:02 PM']One thing that reoccurs every now and then on single, double and combo 12" cabs reviews is a lack of low end. That you can't get the power where you can feel it in your chest. Any comment from the 12" users?

They have my preference tonally, but do they lack live impact?[/quote]

According to Pete Murray over on TB the 1x12 cab has a better low end than the 1x15 MB cabs in his opinion.
Personally i dont like the sound of any of the one driver MB cabs (or the 210P). but thats just me.
I can say though that i get quite a nice chest thumping sound with my 1210 cab. Not really deep low's but enough to feel it.

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