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silverfoxnik

212s v 210s

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Just tell the keyboard player to stick all his parts into a sequencer, get the drummer to play to a click and buy 2 8x10s

Sorted.

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I use a GK 212. Ive had it for a year and still just this weekend a bassist came up to me after we'd played to compliment me on how punchy my tone was. A nice small cab that handles 600w and is very easy to carry into venues without needing help. Highly recommended!

My photos aren't particualrly good, so here's a pic of the 1001RB combo if you're considering one!

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[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='25842' date='Jul 2 2007, 12:54 AM']A skeptic might say that's only done to minimize costs/maximize profits. By building a 4x10 or 2x12 or 1x15 from the same box, changing only the baffle to suit the configuration, rather then purpose designing every configuration for the best possible performance, considerable savings may be realized. Not that I'm a skeptic... :)[/quote]
You old cynic. Probably right though.

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[quote name='dave_bass5' post='25867' date='Jul 2 2007, 08:45 AM']Bill
Well your right about Epifani as my UL212 is the same size as the UL410.
Nik
I have three gigs in Cornwall this weekend playing Haven holiday camps. your welcome to come along if its close to you. Ill be using my Sa450 and UL212.[/quote]

Hi Dave

Thanks for the offer - that would have been great. But I live in Littlehampton about 20 miles west of Brighton so not possible I'm afraid!

Gonzo - loved this:

[i]"Just tell the keyboard player to stick all his parts into a sequencer, get the drummer to play to a click and buy 2 8x10s

Sorted."[/i] :huh:

Thanks for that feedback and the pic RussFM! And Alex, I am amazed at your knowledge of speaker design..simply stunning! Mind you, isn't that the great thing about this forum, there's so much good advice, knowledge and help available, it's bleedin' brilliant!

Now..where was I; a 212 or vertically stacked 210s..or maybe I should go for a 115??? :)

Nik

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[quote name='lowhand_mike' post='26376' date='Jul 3 2007, 10:14 AM']sorry to jump in here, but appart from looking a little odd would i get better response from my mag 2x10 combo by sticking it on its side?[/quote]

Yes. You should hear the midrange more clearly and as you move around the room the tone should be more consistent - so your bandmates should hear you better too. Try it and report back!

My guitarist now does this with 2x10" or 2x12" combos - works a treat.

Alex

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It's interesting you should say that 'cos I started thinking about some old Marshall and Matamp guitar cabs from the '60s, which were basically upright 2x 12s.

Maybe portability got in the way of the 'superior' design?

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[quote name='lowhand_mike' post='26376' date='Jul 3 2007, 05:14 AM']appart from looking a little odd would i get better response from my mag 2x10 combo by sticking it on its side?[/quote]
Your combo is basically the same configuration arrived at by Leo Fender in the late 1950s. The side by side 2x was used because it looked better than a cabinet high enough for the drivers to fit vertically. The fact that it was patently wrong to do so was never considered by Leo, because he was not an audio engineer and didn't know it was wrong. It continues to be the most popular configuration because the average customer isn't an audio engineer either.

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so where do the cabs like the UL212 etc come in?
They have the drivers stacked but also offset. Are they designed like this for a reason other than making the cab a bit smaller?

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Two examples on ebay of the type of cabs I meant, although these are the 4 speaker ones.

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/8-Vintage-Celestion-Speakers-Mounted-In-2-Carlsbro-Cabs_W0QQitemZ110144812646QQihZ001QQcategoryZ23794QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotosting"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/8-Vintage-Celestion-...bayphotohosting[/url]

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Park-Marshall-made-4x12-Blue-Speaker-cabs-late-1969_W0QQitemZ170125544872QQihZ007QQcategoryZ23794QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Park-Marshall-made-4...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]

This 2x12 Matamp is what I mean:

Edited by The Funk

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I'm a little late jumping in on this but if you have the money, the best reproduction of a low B string I've ever heard came from an Eden 210XST. Saying that, I'm using EBS neo 212 and 410 cabs - they have the same footprint as each other but the 410 is a couple of inches taller.

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This 2x12 Matamp is what I mean:


That's how a 2x12 should be done. The Carlsbro appear to be PA boxes. The Marshalls are guitar cabs, open back, and that's a far better way to do it than a half-stack, but the benefits are lost when you put two side by side.
[quote]Are they designed like this for a reason other than making the cab a bit smaller?[/quote]No reason I can think of. If the high end PA industry built cabs based on how they look, rather than how they sound, at least 80% of those on the market today wouldn't exist.

Edited by Bill Fitzmaurice

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[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='26575' date='Jul 3 2007, 04:32 PM']The Marshalls are guitar cabs, open back, and that's a far better way to do it than a half-stack, but the benefits are lost when you put two side by side.[/quote]

Though you could crossfire a side by side pair - that would probably be quite nice considering how bad off-axis most guitar amps are.

Alex

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[quote name='alexclaber' post='26588' date='Jul 3 2007, 04:58 PM']how bad off-axis most guitar amps are.

Alex[/quote]

And guitarists :)

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[quote name='alexclaber' post='26588' date='Jul 3 2007, 04:58 PM']Though you could crossfire a side by side pair - that would probably be quite nice considering how bad off-axis most guitar amps are.

Alex[/quote]

Excellent. :) And what does that mean?

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[quote name='The Funk' post='26593' date='Jul 3 2007, 05:13 PM']Excellent. :) And what does that mean?[/quote]

See this: [url="http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1293"]http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1293[/url]

Alex

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Excellent. I think I understand. Now I need to convince my guitarist to get a vertical 2x12 cab. If I can find a decent one for not much money it might not be that difficult.

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[quote name='The Funk' post='26958' date='Jul 4 2007, 01:09 PM']Excellent. I think I understand. Now I need to convince my guitarist to get a vertical 2x12 cab. If I can find a decent one for not much money it might not be that difficult.[/quote]

The turning a normal combo on its side thing works well too! My guitarist tends to use my drummer's old Sound City 2x12" at gigs, which I gather you can switch one of the speakers off, so he usually just uses the top driver:



It is a fantastic sounding beast even if half the features are broken (reverb, second channel, VU meter, etc)!

Alex

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[quote name='bassbloke' post='26948' date='Jul 4 2007, 12:51 PM']silverfoxnik,

Are you coming to the South East bash next month?[/quote]

Certainly am Bassbloke! Looking forward to it.....You going to be there?

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Currently planning on it - I asked t'other half for permission ages ago, so should be good to go. I'll bring my rig which includes a Tech 2 x 12 with speakers verticaly stacked.

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[quote name='bassbloke' post='27064' date='Jul 4 2007, 05:03 PM']Currently planning on it - I asked t'other half for permission ages ago, so should be good to go. I'll bring my rig which includes a Tech 2 x 12 with speakers verticaly stacked.[/quote]

OK; cool! That'd be brilliant to see/hear in action if you can make it?
Hope to see you then...

Nik

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Just a quick update folks..

I did a gig last night with my GK 2x10 but instead of putting it flat on the floor as per normal, I placed it in the vertical position mentioned here and it was really good! I am thinking about getting another one now so I can stack them as everyone has suggested.

Amazing what you learn on this forum - thanks!

Nik

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[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='28232' date='Jul 7 2007, 10:41 AM']I did a gig last night with my GK 2x10 but instead of putting it flat on the floor as per normal, I placed it in the vertical position mentioned here and it was really good! I am thinking about getting another one now so I can stack them as everyone has suggested.[/quote]

Excellent!

Alex

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