When is a bass considered a "high end" bass?

[Roland Rock]

When it can only be bought on the black market, and you need sunglasses just to look at it:

http://youtu.be/sMRNP3-p9wo

Edited May 13, 2014 by Roland Rock

[Cameronj279]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1400019474' post='2450043']
So where do orchestral players whose instruments can cost £20, 000 or more come into all of this ?

I'm most definitely not middle aged, a lottery winner or rich.

I'm a music student who wanted a bass that would do everything I wanted it to do, after a few years of searching and trying different instruments, I found [i]the one[/i] in my Modulus.

Is it 'high-end' ? I don't know, at £1500 it cost me about half of one of my student loan payments, but to me it's worth every penny.
[/quote]

This was one of the main things that got me curious about this subject. I'm also a music student who also wanted a bass that done everything.

[GrammeFriday]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1399993263' post='2449682']
To ask a slightly provocative question, is a vintage Fender a high end bass?

[/quote]
No, but I would say that Custom Shop masterbuilt Fenders are, because of the combination of price/customisation/quality of materials/individual craftsmanship/marketing hype that you mentioned in an earlier post. It is telling that quite a few people use the terms 'high end' and 'boutique' interchangeably - they are essentially the same thing.

[GrammeFriday]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1399991008' post='2449643']
It's just a matter of taste isn't it, there's no point getting all worked up about it. Most people on here don't like Warwicks but I'm very happy with mine and somehow manage not to have an aneurysm every time someone says something bad about them.
[/quote]

You are absolutely right to say that people on here should not get offended if someone posts derogatory statements about their preferred kind of bass. Different people like and dislike different basses (specifically, 99% like Precisions, and the remaining 1% of us like other stuff ) - so what? But it is disingenuous to imply that this is all that's going on here. Some of your posts have caused offence not because they criticise high end basses, but because they make degoratory statements about the people who (in your view) own and play them. And I hope you can understand that people [b][i]are [/i][/b]entitled to be offended by that.

I don't own (and have never owned) any 'high end' basses myself, and even if I did I wouldn't be bothered by your opinions about my bass collection, But I still think some of your posts were ill-judged because they are clearly a version of the standard middle class sneer about perceived social inferiors: "they should never be allowed to come into money - they have such appalling taste!"

Edited May 14, 2014 by GrammeFriday

[discreet]

[quote name='GrammeFriday' timestamp='1400055984' post='2450182']
..."they should never be allowed to come into money - they have such appalling taste!"
[/quote]

So true, and here's a pic of footballer El Hadji Diouf's gold-plated Escalade as proof.

[GrammeFriday]

Ha! Very true, and sorry if I came over a bit too Dave Spart there.But by the same token there are also people who seem to live for the opportunity to offend. If that's your thing, then may I recommend YouTube Viewer Comments? You can troll away to your heart's content there.

[GrammeFriday]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1400059885' post='2450239']
So true, and here's a pic of footballer El Hadji Diouf's gold-plated Escalade as proof.


[/quote]
Oooh I dunno, I think it could look fantastic with a grade A quilt maple bonnet!

[Weststarx]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1400070010' post='2450403']

Anyway, another observation, that a high end bass comes with no guarantee of sounding good. I'm sure Victor Wooten's bass is capable of sounding as good as a precision if it's set up properly, but it seems he ought to hire a decent tech.
[/quote]

Nothing to do with basses but I have a cheap Yamaha acoustic that I brought for about £150 and the guitarist in my band said it sounded better than his Martin which are up there in the 100s.

Then again I personally think Yamaha make some absolutely outstanding instruments for the prices they charge.

[discreet]

[quote name='GrammeFriday' timestamp='1400068862' post='2450381']
Oooh I dunno, I think it could look fantastic with a grade A quilt maple bonnet!
[/quote]

There's already a grade-A quilt behind the wheel...

Edited May 14, 2014 by discreet

[oggiesnr]

Ignoring the lumps of firewood at the low end of the market, I wonder how many in an audience could really hear the difference between any two basses on any track?

For me high end basses are those that I would love to own aesthetically but know I could never afford/justify. Some basses are just drop dead gorgeous and good luck to those who own them.

As far as price is concerned, if you think high end basses are expensive, look at the price of a good double bass [url="http://www.contrabass.co.uk/csbasses.htm"]http://www.contrabass.co.uk/csbasses.htm[/url]. These are the good quality ones, the high end page is POA only. I know of one orchestral player who sold his bass when he retired (a nice late 19th century english one) for £50,000 and that was by no means top of the range.

Steve

[Dingus]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1400059885' post='2450239']
So true, and here's a pic of footballer El Hadji Diouf's gold-plated Escalade as proof.


[/quote]

Talk about a pejazzle on wheels !

That car is all the more appropriate when you consider that he is driving it around... Bolton.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Dingus

[ambient]

[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1400076204' post='2450492']
Ignoring the lumps of firewood at the low end of the market, I wonder how many in an audience could really hear the difference between any two basses on any track?

For me high end basses are those that I would love to own aesthetically but know I could never afford/justify. Some basses are just drop dead gorgeous and good luck to those who own them.

As far as price is concerned, if you think high end basses are expensive, look at the price of a good double bass [url="http://www.contrabass.co.uk/csbasses.htm"]http://www.contrabas...uk/csbasses.htm[/url]. These are the good quality ones, the high end page is POA only. I know of one orchestral player who sold his bass when he retired (a nice late 19th century english one) for £50,000 and that was by no means top of the range.

Steve
[/quote]

That's what I said in an earlier post.

In my opinion, there's high end regards price, and high end regards the instrument.

High end to me personally means attention to detail in the build of the instrument, quality of components etc, versatility, you haven't got to keep adjusting the neck relief every 5 minutes, you can stick a set of flats on for a blues gig and not have to spend an hour setting the bass up.

My Modulus wasn't expensive in relation to some instruments that you see, Wal's for example of ridiculously pricey.

Sei's ACG's, Clement, Overwater are amazing basses, and every bit as good as a Wal, but don't hold their price as well. They are high end basses though with regards to quality.

High end also doesn't equate to boutique.

Boutique, to me anyway is something like a Ritter with a fancy oddball paint finish.

A good analogy is Doc Marten boots. Relatively expensive, but you get a lifetime guarantee. You could just go out and buy a normal pair of boots, and they'll maybe last 6 months before the soles fall off. Boutique is a pair costing 3 times as much because of the label attached.

[discreet]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1400076934' post='2450509']
A good analogy is Doc Marten boots. Relatively expensive, but you get a lifetime guarantee. You could just go out and buy a normal pair of boots, and they'll maybe last 6 months before the soles fall off. Boutique is a pair costing 3 times as much because of the label attached.
[/quote]

I dunno, I wouldn't want to walk very far in Doc Martens - I'd wear proper walking boots. But I take your point.

[Dingus]

Are Doc Martens expensive nowadays?

The world has gone mad...

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1400079463' post='2450538']
Are Doc Martens expensive nowadays?

The world has gone mad...
[/quote]

The overseas-made DM's are about £100 but I can't get my feet into them. I think it's a different construction pattern. Then there's the 'Made In England' range at [i]really[/i] stupid prices.


[size=3][b]DM[/b]: The 'Made In England' 1460 - [b]£200[/b][/size]


[size=3][size=4]However, I've just discovered Solovair offer an 8-hole boot for £120. Still expensive, but also made in England, hand crafted, reputed to use the original DM lasts and the company's been around since it was formed as a co-operative in 1881. Soon as I get round to it, I'm trying a pair.[/size][/size]


[size=3][size=4][/size][/size]

[size=3][b]Solovair[/b]: 8-eye Derby boot [b]£120[/b][/size]

Edited May 14, 2014 by skankdelvar

[Marvin]

Doc Martin boots used to be relatively cheap, all they seem to have done is cashed in on the brand. As for walking in them... they last so long because you can't walk far in them.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1400086238' post='2450629']
Doc Martin boots used to be relatively cheap, all they seem to have done is cashed in on the brand. As for walking in them... they last so long because you can't walk far in them.
[/quote]

Rotated the same two pairs of original DM shoes for work for over twenty years, much of which was spent walking round London. They were the comfiest shoes I've ever owned. One pair remains and gets wheeled out whenever I'm forced to wear a suit.

The replacement 'new' Chinese DM shoes went in the bin after a week. F**king crippled me.

Edited May 14, 2014 by skankdelvar

[risingson]

A friend of mine let me borrow his Smith to play for a gig I did in Geneva last month, nice bass but I wouldn't like to own one.

I don't gravitate towards most 'high end' stuff and as I've progressed through my 20's my tastes are so completely basic now. It's pretty much old Fenders that do it for me, might change in the future and I'm open to it. Ironically it was when I was younger that I always dreamed of owning a Fodera or something like that, it's taken age to realise I wouldn't benefit from owning one and don't have any interest in them.

Frankly it's totally fine with me if someone chooses to spend a lot of money on a high end instrument. Whether they can play or not (or whether they're a postman or not), if they derive the same satisfaction that I get every time I pick up a P-Bass then that's cool. There's loads of bitterness surrounding the whole issue on either side of the fence.


[quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1400075284' post='2450478']
Nothing to do with basses but I have a cheap Yamaha acoustic that I brought for about £150 and the guitarist in my band said it sounded better than his Martin which are up there in the 100s.

Then again I personally think Yamaha make some absolutely outstanding instruments for the prices they charge.
[/quote]

My Japanese and inexpensive Squier P-Bass sounds like the best P-Bass on record that I've ever owned, and I've owned a lot of them now. Cost me £50!!

[BassTractor]

I'm reminded of the classic story of the nouveau riche man who wants a go at angling, and of course arrives at the spot with a superduper fishing rod costing thousands, a 500 quid multiplier reel, as well as the hookers, bloopers and floopers that go with it (yes, I know ).
He's barely had his first cast when a young boy arrives with a thin rope tied to a branch, and a tiny, bent nail attached to the rope, and the boy has to witness the man catch all the fish...

Edited May 14, 2014 by BassTractor

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1400085896' post='2450626']
[size=3][size=4]However, I've just discovered Solovair offer an 8-hole boot for £120. Still expensive, but also made in England, hand crafted, reputed to use the original DM lasts and the company's been around since it was formed as a co-operative in 1881. Soon as I get round to it, I'm trying a pair.[/size][/size]

[/quote]

They were one of the factories licensed to make DMs before production was moved overseas, and they are a lot like DMs used to be. I like the dealer boots rather than the 8-holers though.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Beer of the Bass

[discreet]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1400086238' post='2450629']
As for walking in them... they last so long because you can't walk far in them.
[/quote]

Tru, dat. DMs are very good everyday wear, but a proper 5-day hike in them will cripple you.

[Dingus]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1400085896' post='2450626']
The overseas-made DM's are about £100 but I can't get my feet into them. I think it's a different construction pattern. Then there's the 'Made In England' range at [i]really[/i] stupid prices.


[size=3][b]DM[/b]: The 'Made In England' 1460 - [b]£200[/b][/size]


[size=3][size=4]However, I've just discovered Solovair offer an 8-hole boot for £120. Still expensive, but also made in England, hand crafted, reputed to use the original DM lasts and the company's been around since it was formed as a co-operative in 1881. Soon as I get round to it, I'm trying a pair.[/size][/size]


[size=3][size=4][/size][/size]

[size=3][b]Solovair[/b]: 8-eye Derby boot [b]£120[/b][/size]
[/quote]

I am quite literally speechless! £120/200(!) for a pair of Docs ? Never mind high end basses, we need an emergency debate on high end bovver boots!

Last time I bought some they were about £20 from the Army and Navy Stores, or, if you wanted to impress the neighbours, Millets.

If there was ever any doubt that at some very high level in this country there is a Tory conspiracy to destroy the working classes then this outrage has surely dispelled that doubt once and for all . Thatcher must have realized that if she could price this kind of footwear out of the market for people living on council estates or standing on the picket line then she would in effect have disarmed the proletariat. It's all so clear to me now. A skinhead wearing a pair of red Kickers just doesn't carry the same degree of menace.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Dingus

[discreet]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1400096872' post='2450796']
Last time I bought some they were about £20 from the Army and Navy Stores, or, if you wanted to impress the neighbours, Millets.
[/quote]

I don't know how to tell you this, but that would have been thirty-odd years ago.

[Dingus]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1400097091' post='2450801']
I don't know how to tell you this, but that would have been thirty-odd years ago.
[/quote]

True...

[Billy Apple]

Solovair are made by NPS (Northampton Productive Soc) and were licensed by Griggs to manufacture the Martens brand. Griggs bought the licence from Germany. So, yes Solovair are made with all the original lasts, cutters and machinery. After farming out production to the far east, Griggs have seen the success of Solovair and are back in production here with the pricey Made In Britain Docs.

Both can be acquired at the British Boot Company, Camden, along with George Cox Creepers and all other manner of sexy stuff..

http://www.britboot.co.uk/engine/shop/index.html