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Folk players


Oscar South
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I occasionally sub as bassist for a local Ceilidh band (gig coming up actually), the way this band operates is that the Melodeon player just plays tunes and everyone else plays along by ear, its not too difficult and the only real challenge is making sure you play the same as the guitarist (as the tunes can often be harmonised in a few different ways). I'm not sure how the regular bassist plays really as I've not been to any of their gigs that I didn't play at. The style doesn't really invite a very 'busy' bass role, my personnel approach consists of keeping a pretty even beat most of the time without much variation, broken up occasionally with a bit of Mccartney-Mingus-esque hybrid double time style walking (if you can imagine it :)) on the more 'intense' parts and sometimes joining the melody in unison/parallel octaves.

It just struck my however that apart from taking a little from Dave Pegg, I've really never looked at any reference point, what approach does anyone else who plays in the style take?

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[quote name='Oscar South' post='241370' date='Jul 16 2008, 11:14 PM']I occasionally sub as bassist for a local Ceilidh band (gig coming up actually), the way this band operates is that the Melodeon player just plays tunes and everyone else plays along by ear, its not too difficult and the only real challenge is making sure you play the same as the guitarist (as the tunes can often be harmonised in a few different ways). I'm not sure how the regular bassist plays really as I've not been to any of their gigs that I didn't play at. The style doesn't really invite a very 'busy' bass role, my personnel approach consists of keeping a pretty even beat most of the time without much variation, broken up occasionally with a bit of Mccartney-Mingus-esque hybrid double time style walking (if you can imagine it :)) on the more 'intense' parts and sometimes joining the melody in unison/parallel octaves.

It just struck my however that apart from taking a little from Dave Pegg, I've really never looked at any reference point, what approach does anyone else who plays in the style take?[/quote]

Get yourself a copy of 20 Golden Tie-Slackeners by the Oyster Band, from www.oysterband.co.uk . This is a master-class in ceilidh bass playing by the legendary Iain Kearey, and in English ceilidh music in general. There's a lot more to it than just following the guitarist. And by god does it make you want to get up and dance! For something more current, Rick Kemp (yes, him of Steeleye fame) is currently playing with Whapweasel, who are my favourite current band. They have a number of CDs and are excellent live.

Bellowhead also have some great bass lines, played on Tuba rather than bass guitar.

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[quote name='pete.young' post='241377' date='Jul 16 2008, 11:23 PM']Get yourself a copy of 20 Golden Tie-Slackeners by the Oyster Band, from www.oysterband.co.uk . This is a master-class in ceilidh bass playing by the legendary Iain Kearey, and in English ceilidh music in general. There's a lot more to it than just following the guitarist. And by god does it make you want to get up and dance! For something more current, Rick Kemp (yes, him of Steeleye fame) is currently playing with Whapweasel, who are my favourite current band. They have a number of CDs and are excellent live.

Bellowhead also have some great bass lines, played on Tuba rather than bass guitar.[/quote]

Cool, I'll get hold of that and have a look at it sometime soon, I've also got some CD by Whapweasel which I quite like, will be seeing them at Bromyard Folk festival too which I'm stewarding at for free tickets :).

Has anyone heard of Ben and Joe Broughton by the way? Joe is a great violin player and has played with various big folk names such as the Albion band, Ben is a really good guitarist/bassist and is my main instrumental tutor at university. [url="http://www.benandjoebroughton.co.uk/"]http://www.benandjoebroughton.co.uk/[/url]

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Thanks for the comments above. I am checking out the resources.

For myself, I have ended up playing either very little or quite a lot but never anything in between:

When the music is ticking along, I tend to play the root on beat one and nothing else. I might advance or delay that note by half a beat or whatever, if the rhythm demands it.

When there's a gap or some other kind of opportunity, such as doubling the tune, I put in a run then peg it straight back again.

I don't know if it's really that great but it does get away from the dangerous area of twee, plodding bass lines.

If I could work out a way to do anything else and not have it sound rubbish, I would give it a go. I am still just getting started on this.

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[quote name='wateroftyne' post='241607' date='Jul 17 2008, 11:24 AM']I've posted this before, and I'll post it again.

[url="http://www.jollybeggars.co.uk/stuff/oakeyreel.mp3"]Ian Murray of Jack the Lad[/url].[/quote]

ewww... It might just be the laptop speakers, but that sounded like prog-folk.

*universe implodes*

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[quote name='paul, the' post='241648' date='Jul 17 2008, 12:18 PM']ewww... It might just be the laptop speakers, but that sounded like prog-folk.

*universe implodes*[/quote]

It certainly is! It's been around for a loooooooong time.

Not all of it is great, mind.

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[quote name='wateroftyne' post='241607' date='Jul 17 2008, 11:24 AM']I've posted this before, and I'll post it again.

[url="http://www.jollybeggars.co.uk/stuff/oakeyreel.mp3"]Ian Murray of Jack the Lad[/url].[/quote]

I smirk every time you post that link WoT - what a GREAT tune!

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[quote name='Oscar South' post='241387' date='Jul 16 2008, 11:36 PM']Has anyone heard of Ben and Joe Broughton by the way? Joe is a great violin player and has played with various big folk names such as the Albion band, Ben is a really good guitarist/bassist and is my main instrumental tutor at university. [url="http://www.benandjoebroughton.co.uk/"]http://www.benandjoebroughton.co.uk/[/url][/quote]

I sound engineered Ben and Joe at a folk festival a few years ago. Great players both of 'em, definitely!

David

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I play in an English Style Ceilidh band too ..
No rules in our band .. We are more than likely to play Sweet Werewolf Summer Alabama tonight at a wedding :) and for a dance :huh:

My home work when I joined (from a rock-pop-general background) was the CD "Morris on" and also, "Son of Morris on", partly os our guitarist is on them (in the audience :huh:)
+1 on Rick Kemp. My fave track of his is the newish Blackleg Miner with slap into .. sure it's still folk :huh: and he plays a very growly Overwater ...

Your best bet is to ask the most influential person in teh band for recommendations as there are as many styles of this as there are bands, more or less. If you play a bit like that person thinks is "right" you'll be OK.

Oh the other general guideline is to keep it really simple for the first couple of times through the dance to let the dancers "get it". I often don't play at all during the intro and the first time through. Then I'll just play roots, bringing in the interesting stuff as it goes along. i also play up the dusty end and louder and quieter too.. That adds dynamics and interest to the tune too.

I play in one band now and then where everyone plays the tune all the way through from start to end .. They don't do dynamics ... It's a dep so not my place to say anything but 15 minutes of that per tune is a tad boring ...

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I developed my own style. Down at the bottom of [url="http://www.newcoronaband.co.uk/samples.html"]this page[/url] are links to three of the sets of tunes that we do. I think the recording could be better, took it off the PA at Dudley Beer Festival and had to give the bass a big boost because it was nearly inaudible in the mix. I tend to play root, 5th, and interesting runs (some of them actually in tune). Depending on the dance, I may accentuate particular beats quite heavily or not.

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Ah yeah .. a few snippets of our band are on here. Bass is a bit quiet 'cos I was a bit loud on stage and so mixed down in the PA :)
[url="http://www.jellied-reels.co.uk/sounds.htm"]Jellied Reels Rocky Ceilidh Band - Sounds page[/url]

Oh and there's a tune behind our "setting up" montage on Youtube too ..

Edited by OldGit
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Cool, will have a listen, I'll see if I can get a recording of my playing at this gig so I can post it. Oh yea and I forgot to mention before that I play the majority of the time on Double Bass now, switching to Electric as the 'backup' when it suits the tune better. I bow a couple of the slow ones too, my favourate to bow is probably 'Planxty Irwin'.

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[quote name='Oscar South' post='244883' date='Jul 21 2008, 10:24 PM']Cool, will have a listen, I'll see if I can get a recording of my playing at this gig so I can post it. Oh yea and I forgot to mention before that I play the majority of the time on Double Bass now, switching to Electric as the 'backup' when it suits the tune better. I bow a couple of the slow ones too, my favourate to bow is probably 'Planxty Irwin'.[/quote]


Saw you were looking for a Steiny Spirit ... only if your really have to .. I had one it was not a great bass .. IMHO....

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[quote name='OldGit' post='244889' date='Jul 21 2008, 10:34 PM']Saw you were looking for a Steiny Spirit ... only if your really have to .. I had one it was not a great bass .. IMHO....[/quote]

Really? damn. One of the coolest looking basses I've seen and would be amazingly convenient, figured since I hadn't seen anything bad about em yet they must be decent : /. I'll hold out until I get to try one out, cheers for the heads up.

Edited by Oscar South
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[quote name='Oscar South' post='244898' date='Jul 21 2008, 10:41 PM']Really? damn. One of the coolest looking basses I've seen and would be amazingly convenient, figured since I hadn't seen anything bad about em yet they must be decent : /. I'll hold out until I get to try one out, cheers for the heads up.[/quote]

I'm talking about the very small cricket bat style ones, the XT's
You may like them .. :) Look cool, no doubt, but where the graphite of the old Steinbergers made up for the lack of actual physical mass , and teh synapse seems to have something good going on too, the "budget" construction and small amount of wood in the spirit XT doesn't. I even put real 18v EMG's in place of the "EMG designed" passive pickups but it still sounded "thin" to me ..

In your shoes I'd just get a good backpack gig bag and carry a full sized bass ..

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[quote name='OldGit' post='244889' date='Jul 21 2008, 10:34 PM']Saw you were looking for a Steiny Spirit ... only if your really have to .. I had one it was not a great bass .. IMHO....[/quote]
Cricket bat or XZ? I liked my XZ25, only sold it because I didn't use it (and then found it would have come in useful later).

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