logicred Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Hi all. I am the bass player in a 5 piece funk band. We practice in a small square rehearsal studio with a large supplied PA beside the drums and the bass/guitar amp facing the drums (kind of in a circle). Sounds great and now ready to gig and this is where I have no idea what we do/need in terms of speaker layout/PA. Please help with the following SMALL GIGS - For smaller gigs (pubs/clubs etc) do we just use the PA for vocals only and then simply use our instrument amps as normal? - Would the PA then go behind the singers (x 2) so we don't need any monitors? - At what point do we require monitors for small gigs and what would we put through them? Thinking about it, it would surely be just the drummer who would need to hear vocals/bass/guitar through a single monitor as everyone else can hear the instruments? - In terms of monitoring levels, would we just have a dedicated person giving a hand signal to say what's too loud/quiet and then adjust accordingly - I assume we don't mic up the drums at all. LARGE GIGS - At what point do we all go through the PA, I assume for larger halls etc? - I guess we will always then require someone to man the desk to sort out levels? I fully appreciate that it's trial/error too and I won't know until we start to gig, but I need to know the basics for our first gig! Any help/pointers appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy1984 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 It all depends what PA system you will provide on the gig. Small venue, I would suggest having the vocal to the PA and leave everything else out. Maybe the bass drum going through as well. I would suggest use monitor even for small gig because the vocal and drummer might not hear anything at all. Big venue, usuall supply with PA and someone in the venue will be the sound guy. At that point, everything should go through the PA and any amps on the stage will be monitor purpose only. Suggest mic the guitar amp and bass will be DI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 [quote name='logicred' timestamp='1396436066' post='2413486'] SMALL GIGS - For smaller gigs (pubs/clubs etc) do we just use the PA for vocals only and then simply use our instrument amps as normal? [/quote] Thats the default setup that probably 90% of bands use. At larger gigs without a house PA you would probably put a bit of other instruments through the PA, kick drum is usually the first thing than needs some help in bigger gigs. Even bigger gigs than this would usually be using a house PA and a sound guy will do all the setup for you. [quote] - Would the PA then go behind the singers (x 2) so we don't need any monitors? [/quote] No, that would result in mic feedback. [quote] - At what point do we require monitors for small gigs and what would we put through them? Thinking about it, it would surely be just the drummer who would need to hear vocals/bass/guitar through a single monitor as everyone else can hear the instruments? [/quote] You generally some vocal monitoring right from the off. Either use self powered monitors or use one PA amp channel for our front and one to power passive monitors (most PA mixer-amps are designed to allow this with a separate mix for the channel driving monitors). [quote] - In terms of monitoring levels, would we just have a dedicated person giving a hand signal to say what's too loud/quiet and then adjust accordingly [/quote] Yeah youl have to improvise a bit - a mate in the audience, band member with a long lead/radio during sound check at the smaller gigs. [quote] - I assume we don't mic up the drums at all. [/quote] Except for kick drum and sometimes snare, Its rare to mic a whole kit unless your at a venue with a house PA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkin Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 For small gigs - pubs, small hall etc - ...we usually put just the vocals through the PA...occasionally a bit of kick drum. PA speakers go in front of the vocals, otherwise there's a tendency to get horrible feedback if you're playing anything like loud. We always use at least one monitor if space is very tight - more of space allows. Even if you're relying on backline for your sound, you'll get a certain amount of drums/bass/guitar bleeding through the vocal mics, which can add a bit of reinforcement to the FOH sound. re: setting relative levels etc...I use either a long lead or wireless, and wander out front for the soundcheck.. Set the levels as low as you can get away with. Most pub bands that I see play far too loud. If anything can't be heard, don't turn it up - turn everything else down! No doubt somebody will be along to tell me we're doing it all wrong, but it works for me Bigger gigs, with PA provided - you're largely in the hands of the soundman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Actually I agree with all of your post, especially this bit: [quote name='barkin' timestamp='1396438216' post='2413553']Set the levels as low as you can get away with. Most pub bands that I see play far too loud. If anything can't be heard, don't turn it up - turn everything else down![/quote] Well, nearly all, we ALWAYS put kick through the PA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Are you actually providing a PA for your gigs or are you going to be using the house PA? If it's the former I think you're going to have to hire a bigger studio that will allow you to set up your own PA and run things as you would at a gig. I don't think I'd like to be trying to figure out what's going to work with a PA at a first gig - you'll probably have enough other stuff to think about. If it's the latter relax, be friendly to the sound guy and do exactly what he says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Where are you based? If you're anywhere near here you can pop round and I'll happily give you a PA 101 session if it helps. I've got a stupid amount of kit in the workshop at the moment so can go through anything from mini PA to festival rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 (edited) It doesn't sound like you are very confident on what you are doing or are trying to achieve so leave the P.A to getting the vox the best they can sound. You don't want to complicate this with kick drum mic placement.... or indeed what mic to use.. Play to the level of the kit so you stand a chance of a getting a reasonable mix. Vox way higher than everything else... P.A in front of the singer, to the side is the norm..and singers will soon complain they can't hear..so monitors are for vox only. Once you have cracked the mix and the vox are sounding good...then..only then, can you look at any other sound re-enforcement ideas. You are trying to run before you walk... This is the recipe for gigs upto 100 ppl. If you think you will draw 500... then either the venue will have a P.A or you will hire one in and then the engr will take over and tell you want they want. Your primary concern is to get the vox as good as they can be.............. Edited April 3, 2014 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Yep, all good advice. I've been running a thread on this on another site if you are interested http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1591207 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logicred Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 Thanks for your replies. I think we need to hire a hall to test our current kit before doing a gig ;-) Some great advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Yes, good idea. you'll be surprised how many new gigging bands don't test the band sound and P.A in a dry run. The just turn on the P.A and go...but then a lot of bands skimp on the P.A and certainly the vox as some sort of other thought. Things like cable runs with spare 4 ways and drums, plus extra XLR's of both kinds, mic holders, etc etc beyond what each player carries for themselves. It doesn' matter who carries it, so much as it needs to be part of the load-in. The standard here is good P.A and a light show to be considered a decent band...that is just the way it is.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Getting in a hall is a good idea, but you have to remember that the sound you get will not be the same as if the hall was packed with people. Human bodies are the best sound suppressers out. Also plus 10 to the suggestion of not being too loud. It's far better to be told to turn up than it is to be told to turn down. We have always had a job getting a sound as we don't have a sound man and do our mixing from the stage. I sing as well as play bass, so have to rely on out guitarist taking a walk out front to hear if we have a balance. Generally , small to medium pub gigs will only require vocals and kick through the pa. Fair enough if you have subs but most pa's will suffice just handling vocals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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