(OMFG - it worked!!) Fender Custom Shop - worth the tag?

[Jazzjames]

Hi,

My opinion is that if you find one and play it and like it, then go for it. I have a Custom Shop 1960 Jazz relic and whilst I am not into the whole relic thing, I played it second hand in a music shop in Edinburgh in the summer just out of curiosity and just loved it, and bought it as a result. It's a really good instrument in every respect, and one that I will keep for good.

However, I played a similar bass to mine, same sort of spec, just different colour, on Denmark street the other day, and it was heavier and nowhere near as resonant as mine. I think this shows that there's a fair bit of variation even in the top fenders, nothing to do with craftsmanship, but wood is wood and sometimes a neck and a body work better together than others.

James

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

[quote name='Jazzjames' timestamp='1389737443' post='2337456']
My opinion is that if you find one and play it and like it, then go for it. I have a Custom Shop 1960 Jazz relic and whilst I am not into the whole relic thing, I played it second hand in a music shop in Edinburgh in the summer just out of curiosity and just loved it, and bought it as a result. It's a really good instrument in every respect, and one that I will keep for good.

However, I played a similar bass to mine, same sort of spec, just different colour, on Denmark street the other day, and it was heavier and nowhere near as resonant as mine. I think this shows that there's a fair bit of variation even in the top fenders, nothing to do with craftsmanship, but wood is wood and sometimes a neck and a body work better together than others.
[/quote]
Absolutely right. Play before you pay. I have that option on the one I've ordered.

[karlfer]

Think for me the Sadowsky has just stopped any thought of Fender CS. Mind, some of the stuff that Peterbuilt do is AMAZINGGGGGG! And most of it seems to be South of £1500.
Before Christmas they were showing the most stunning fretless "jazz" I've ever seen. A darkish Sea Foam Green, ebony board, tortie plate. The Candy Apple Orange one was something else, as was the Burgundy Mist P. Superbly made as well according to a lot of owners.
Mind, I would think if you got your vintage replica of dreams and needed to move it on, you would lose quite a bit.

[Mr Fretbuzz]

Pulled the trigger on a custom order with coda yesterday for a very heavy relic 59P daphne blue over sunburst with a one piece Quartersawn tinted maple neck and fretboard. Asked them to make it as ratty as possible. I want a P that looks sh*t but sounds the dogs bollox :-)

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

[quote name='Mr Fretbuzz' timestamp='1400148454' post='2451143']
Pulled the trigger on a custom order with coda yesterday for a very heavy relic 59P daphne blue over sunburst with a one piece Quartersawn tinted maple neck and fretboard. Asked them to make it as ratty as possible. I want a P that looks sh*t but sounds the dogs bollox :-)
[/quote]
Nice. I look forward to seeing the pictures. I presume they are taking your request as a challenge and you will receive an "Ultimate Relic". I may be getting something Fender CS shaped at the weekend. Fingers crossed.

[Mr Fretbuzz]

I hope so. I don't expect they get too many requests for a badly beaten up bass. Maybe someone will really be up for the challenge and for a change. Coda liked my idea and they were going to order it in even if I didn't order it. Maybe I'll jump the 5-8 month wait :-) yep, I'll post some photos when I get it. Good luck with yours :-)

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

My CS arrived yesterday. It's going back. I'm not posting this to flame the supplier as they have been great, it's just that I am hugely disappointed when I should be over the moon.

I can't post pictures from here, but essentially there is a noticeable difference in the distance between the E string and the edge of the fretboard and the G string and the other edge. The E side is far wider. Strings are pretty much evenly spaced and they are fine as they go over the nut. Saddles are not adjustable laterally.

I keep asking myself, am I being too picky, but I know it will drive me nuts.

Anyone else had similar problems?

[Musicman20]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1400674974' post='2455974']
My CS arrived yesterday. It's going back. I'm not posting this to flame the supplier as they have been great, it's just that I am hugely disappointed when I should be over the moon.

I can't post pictures from here, but essentially there is a noticeable difference in the distance between the E string and the edge of the fretboard and the G string and the other edge. The E side is far wider. Strings are pretty much evenly spaced and they are fine as they go over the nut. Saddles are not adjustable laterally.

I keep asking myself, am I being too picky, but I know it will drive me nuts.

Anyone else had similar problems?
[/quote]

I've seen loads of Jazz basses like that. Either the bridge has been drilled wrong or the neck has moved...either way not good enough.

[BigRedX]

No you are not being picky. Something with the name "Custom Shop" on it should be perfect.

Not a 3-bolt neck joint by any chance?

[UglyDog]

Do the strings line up with the polepieces properly or are they out too? It a bit sounds like a misplaced bridge.

[Beedster]

QC on Fender Custom Shop instruments used to be just as hit and miss as the US stock versions. Seems the teams responsible for QC on US stock instruments have recently upped their game to the point at which I'd say the chances of dodgy workmanship are greater with CS models than stock. Materials, paint finishes etc might be more desirable on CS for sure, but the quality control of the instruments that come out is clearly simply not up to scratch. Either that or FCS actually don't care.

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1400675382' post='2455980']
I've seen loads of Jazz basses like that. Either the bridge has been drilled wrong or the neck has moved...either way not good enough.
[/quote]
Yes, either the bridge has been drilled incorrectly or perhaps the neck pocket has been made slightly out or as you suggest the neck has moved. It's not a three bolt by the way, it's a four bolt.

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

[quote name='UglyDog' timestamp='1400675487' post='2455983']
Do the strings line up with the polepieces properly or are they out too? It a bit sounds like a misplaced bridge.
[/quote]
Not an easy question to answer that one. I'll try and answer it better with pictures later.

[Dingus]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1400675382' post='2455980']
I've seen loads of Jazz basses like that. Either the bridge has been drilled wrong or the neck has moved...either way not good enough.
[/quote]

Yes, it will be one of those things, although as well as the neck moving it can also be caused by the slot for the neck being routed very slightly off center , so even if the neck hasn't shifted, it won't be aligned properly. Far more likely to be one of the first two possibilities though . If the bridge is slightly misaligned ( the most likely explanation) then for a skilled luthier it's a very easy fix , but it should never have left the factory that way. It's a very common fault , and even on a lot of basses with properly aligned bridges, if you take the bridge off, you will see the holes from previous abortive attempts to align the bridge properly at the factory .

However, the reality if that the Fender Custom Shop will have been under pressure to get these basses out to the dealers within a certain time frame , and this is exactly the kind of gaff that results from that expediency. I've seen this kind of thing time and time again from high end bass builders, and it almost invariably results from the pressures of the real world rather than from any inherent lack of skill or cavalier attitude to quality control . Especially with smaller independent builders, they need to get the basses out to the customer so they can get paid because they are desperate for the cash.

[Lw.]

Sorry to hear about your poor NBD experience - no one likes it when you're really looking forward to something for ages then it's not perfect (as a Fender CS should be).

I can understand bridges being drilled wrong but how can a neck move once bolted in place?

[BigRedX]

Surely a standard CS model (which isn't a hand-crafted Masterbuild) should have been CNC machined which means that all the routing and pilot holes ought to be in the right places for everything to line up?

[Beedster]

[quote name='Lw.' timestamp='1400683055' post='2456056']
I can understand bridges being drilled wrong but how can a neck move once bolted in place?
[/quote]

How, given Fender are a company who've been building Precision Basses for 63 years and Jazzes for 54 years, can you understand the bridge being drilled wrong? It's not exactly precision engineering (although to stretch the metaphor clearly FCS take a slightly jazz approach). I've owned three FCS basses and all of them had the type of issues that had Bass Doc built them I'd have sent it back saying "can you sort this out for me". Thing is, the stuff that Bass Doc or similar guys produce tends not to have these problems. Dingus is right in one sense, pressure, but while I normally agree with everything he says, and given the extended build times that FCS are famous for, I don't think it's time pressure in terms of getting them to dealers, it's time pressure in terms of getting as many produced as possible in as short a time frame, i.e., more money for less quality.

[Lw.]

I understand the physics of it, ie someone lining the drill up wrong or the body not being straight in the clamps etc... I obviously don't think it's acceptable.

Though saying that; I've never made a bass so can't comment on their procedures though part of me thinks drilling holes in the correct position should be one of the easiest parts.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Lw.

[Dingus]

That's exactly the kind of pressure I mean Chris !

They need to get them to the dealers in order to get paid. In most circumstances, the manufacturer isn't paid at least until the goods are ready to be shipped, and often after that by invoice after delivery to the dealer, so for the sake of cash flow, even companies the size of Fender are always working to a schedule to keep cash flow on track.

However, the customer shouldn't have to bear the brunt of that, but the reality is that, all too often, they do.

[Dingus]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1400683603' post='2456064']
Surely a standard CS model (which isn't a hand-crafted Masterbuild) should have been CNC machined which means that all the routing and pilot holes ought to be in the right places for everything to line up?
[/quote]

I think that standard CNC routing isn't accurate to the kind of tolerances you need for the finer points of building basses . Half a millimeter at the bridge can make a discernible difference to the alignment of the strings on the fingerboard. Part of the problem is that wood is a comparatively soft , variable and unpredictable material to work with. It's ancient -world engineering, and so relies on craftsmanship as much as precision geometry .

[Beedster]

[quote name='Lw.' timestamp='1400684436' post='2456085']
Though saying that; I've never made a bass so can't comment on their procedures though part of me thinks drilling holes in the correct position should be one of the easiest parts.
[/quote]

That was kinda my thinking, given that terms like 'Masterbuilt' are banded about, they seem to be able to do the stuff I can't do (build a beautiful flamed maple neck for example), but can't do the stuff I could - and before anyone asks - have done, that is line up a bridge with a neck and then gut the PUPs underneath the strings!

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1400684465' post='2456088']
That's exactly the kind of pressure I mean Chris !

They need to get them to the dealers in order to get paid. In most circumstances, the manufacturer isn't paid at least until the goods are ready to be shipped, and often after that by invoice after delivery to the dealer, so for the sake of cash flow, even companies the size of Fender are always working to a schedule to keep cash flow on track.

However, the customer shouldn't have to bear the brunt of that, but the reality is that, all too often, they do.
[/quote]

Agreed

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

I'm glad I posted the update now as I had reached the point where I was questioning whether it was worth making a fuss about. Thanks for you comments guys. As a side note, the E string also buzzes like crazy. Nothing from the others, just the E all the way up. I accept a set up might make that disappear, but I'm not going to tinker with it.

So, the billion dollar question, if it is either a misaligned bridge or the neck pointing in the wrong direction, do I really want anyone prodding, poking and sawing at it trying it to make right?

My gut says no. I would prefer to have one without issues or any history of same.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1400686386' post='2456108']
My gut says no. I would prefer to have one without issues or any history of same.
[/quote]

This.

I've also seen [u]very[/u] expensive boutique basses with this issue.

[KiOgon]

If it was only the alignment of the strings equally on the neck that was the problem, the first thing I would suspect would be the neck had received a jolt during shipping. Even a very good neck/pocket fit can be nudged out of alignment quite easily. I would have slackened the strings then slackened the neck bolts & 'got a feel' for where the neck wanted to sit in the body. Then tightened the lot up & checked again, if it's wrong it always will be but chances are things would have seated themselves in the right place for the sake of 5 minutes with a screwdriver.

Easier than sending it back

[leroydiamond]

Go with your gut. With the money they are asking for CS basses, everything should be perfect IMO and the dealer should insure that is the case before it gets into the hands of the customer IMO.

Edited May 21, 2014 by leroydiamond