Genz Benz bargains?

[Conan]

[quote name='jimbobothy' timestamp='1384538553' post='2277971'] Anyhow all things aside I'll try it out and if I don't like it for whatever reason it'll just be another item put on the BC roundabout .
[/quote]

Likewise. Played through it at last night's gig and really struggled to hear myself. Just couldn't seem to find a tone that was pleasing and audible. Never had that problem with my BF Vintage or Compact. The GB cab is also a heck of a lot heavier and much more awkward to move about.

Shame, because I really like the look of it. It is a very solid looking and feeling cab, and a model that I had wanted to try for a long time.

Now we have the awkward question of what it is worth if I decide to sell it!!? Is it fair to charge what the cabs are worth when everyone knows what you paid for them? Does the BC karma machine demand that you charge £379 so that the community can benefit from the GAK super-prices?

Bit of a dilemma that one...

Edited November 17, 2013 by Conan

[jimbobothy]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1384647312' post='2279220']
Just the standard padding, no board.
[/quote]
[quote name='artisan' timestamp='1384652429' post='2279243']
Same here,just standard padding.
I like it but i am going to get it altered as it is toi long.

[/quote]

Cheers guys for that. I've already got a Hot Covers one for my Shuttle Combo and the price is pretty similar to the Roqsolid. I'll have to get some sort of cover if I keep the new one but at £50 ish I'll have to be sure first!

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1384680713' post='2279317']
Likewise. Played through it at last night's gig and really struggled to hear myself. Just couldn't seem to find a tone that was pleasing and audible. Never had that problem with my BF Vintage or Compact. The GB cab is also a heck of a lot heavier and much more awkward to move about.

Shame, because I really like the look of it. It is a very solid looking and feeling cab, and a model that I had wanted to try for a long time.

Now we have the awkward question of what it is worth if I decide to sell it!!? Is it fair to charge what the cabs are worth when everyone knows what you paid for them? Does the BC karma machine demand that you charge £379 so that the community can benefit from the GAK super-prices?

Bit of a dilemma that one...
[/quote]

Yup, interesting one this Re the sound. I took it to a rehearsal and played it for the first time, the bottom end was very good, it's just the mids kind of died, quite surprising. I guess I need time to EQ it all as I can't presume the same amp settings for my old cab will work with this one.

On the other dilemma Re the selling price, my take on this is I'll always try and pass on any deal I get if I sell it on BC, wherever I have bought the thing I'm selling. So my cab will be priced around whatever I bought it for (either the same or a bit less) as I would have used it a bit etc. However if I wanted to try and get a 'fair market price' ie more for it, I'd sell it via other means and not through BC. I have bought and sold lots and lots of basses on BC, one of the reasons is that people have passed on bargains to me, so I like to try and do the same.

Saying all that, it is entirely up to you and as mentioned on various posts previously, the market will decide in the end if the price is correct!!

Edited November 17, 2013 by jimbobothy

[Conan]

[quote name='jimbobothy' timestamp='1384683812' post='2279351']I guess I need time to EQ it all as I can't presume the same amp settings with work the same as with my cab.
[/quote]

Oh absolutely! The problem is that my amp (a Hartke LH500) is hardly noted for its ability to chuck out mids. My main bass is a Fender J and I prefer to have both pickups on full. Again, a bit of a mid-range desert! Add to that my use of a BDI21 and you start to see the problem that the new cab is up against!

That said, under identical conditions, my Compact always sounded rich and full. Why can I never just be happy with what I have??

Damn you GAS!!

Edited November 17, 2013 by Conan

[jimbobothy]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1384684170' post='2279354']
Why can I never just be happy with what I have??
[/quote]

Yeah, tell me about it, hence the 'lots and lots of basses' in my above post. So far I haven't had GAS for the amp side of things, well not yet anyhow !

Edited November 17, 2013 by jimbobothy

[BassBunny]

[quote name='artisan' timestamp='1384604166' post='2278575']
how's the fit of your cover ?
Mine is slightly too long so touches the floor on the front & sides,i may return mine so they can shorten it a tad.
[/quote]
When I ordered my cover I mentioned the wheels and asked if the cover tapered towards the back to allow the wheels to move freely. This is the answer I got back:
"The cab cover has cut-outs for the wheels at the back so should be fine."
So I am assuming yours doesn't have the cut-outs?

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1384684170' post='2279354']


Oh absolutely! The problem is that my amp (a Hartke LH500) is hardly noted for its ability to chuck out mids. My main bass is a Fender J and I prefer to have both pickups on full. Again, a bit of a mid-range desert! Add to that my use of a BDI21 and you start to see the problem that the new cab is up against!

That said, under identical conditions, my Compact always sounded rich and full. Why can I never just be happy with what I have??

Damn you GAS!!
[/quote]

Wow, that is a mid desert! You are literally sucking mids at every point.

I'm finding the cab is extremely balanced but there is a small low mid bump.

I am shocked that a 1x15 had more mid punch than a 2x12 with drivers that are on par, especially as the 2x12 is voiced more to punch through.

I tried a Compact a while back and it could seriously throw out some low end, but it missed the definition I'm used to, hence it didn't work for me.

The other thing that confuses me is the BF tend to promote that it's cab that gives you what you put in, so no mids is no mids, with no particular voicing of the cab changing that.

That said, everyone has different tastes so if it doesn't work move it on

With regards to price, the cab is £720-740 new. It's upto you how you play it. You were quick to order so if you make profit, you make a profit. If you don't want to do that on here, that's fair play. It might seem more moralistic to sell on eBay etc.

Saying that, there are some lurkers on here who post new basses every now and then but they mainly sell basses and amps that they've definitely picked up cheaper. We are probably funding their new gear.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Musicman20

[artisan]

[quote name='BassBunny' timestamp='1384685402' post='2279367']
When I ordered my cover I mentioned the wheels and asked if the cover tapered towards the back to allow the wheels to move freely. This is the answer I got back:
"The cab cover has cut-outs for the wheels at the back so should be fine."
So I am assuming yours doesn't have the cut-outs?
[/quote]
hi,yes mine does have the cut out for the wheels but the whole thing is about 10-15mm too long,so the cut out actually covers most of the wheels & every where else touches the floor.
Roqsolid are going to alter it for me free of charge though so its no problem,otherwise the quality of the cover is superb.

Did the 3rd gig so far with my new rig last night,the speakers are now fully broken in & man what a sound,my D.B. was really rockin' the house,i couldn't stop grinning,i really love my Genz rig
During sound check i plugged my Alpher in & that sounds fantastic too,all i need now is a second band so i can actually use it as you just can't play Rockabilly on bass guitar it ain't right

[Conan]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1384686487' post='2279382']I am shocked that a 1x15 had more mid punch than a 2x12 with drivers that are on par, especially as the 2x12 is voiced more to punch through. The other thing that confuses me is the BF tend to promote that it's cab that gives you what you put in, so no mids is no mids, with no particular voicing of the cab changing that.
[/quote]

Well I suppose that if you come to a BF cab from a series of mid-scooped cabs (in my case, Trace Elliot, Ampeg and Ashdown in that order) then the flat response of the BF cab will sound mid-rich in comparison.

As you say, the GB can does seem to have a bit of a mid hump - but to my ears in is in the low-mid area rather than the (more pleasing to my ears) "mid-mid" part of the sound spectrum. Does that make sense? I find it is getting lost amid the low toms on the drumkit. But again, I guess that will depend on the kit itself and how the individual drummer tunes it....

So many variables!

[cetera]

Gutted I missed the Neox212 at £379.
Anyone want to sell on I'll take it off your hands....

[Conan]

[quote name='cetera' timestamp='1384731611' post='2280188']
Gutted I missed the Neox212 at £379.
Anyone want to sell on I'll take it off your hands....
[/quote]

Ahhh... but at what price?!?

[stingrayPete1977]

Im not sure how anyone will sell them for more than they paid, they are not on special offer and going back up to £780 after, they are discontinued end of line stock. Id say 3/4 of whatever the fender branded ones retail for will be the most anyone will get for a mint one, that could be £600 if the fender ones are £800 but fender might sell them for £400 yet or not make any at all, who knows?

[Conan]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1384770405' post='2280374']
Im not sure how anyone will sell them for more than they paid, they are not on special offer and going back up to £780 after, they are discontinued end of line stock. Id say 3/4 of whatever the fender branded ones retail for will be the most anyone will get for a mint one, that could be £600 if the fender ones are £800 but fender might sell them for £400 yet or not make any at all, who knows?
[/quote]

Hmmmm. I'm not sure about this, and it raises all kinds of moral and ethical questions.

True, we don't know what the plans are for this model or even this brand. But there are people on here who paid nearly £800 for one of these cabs (before the discounts came through). What if they want to sell their cabs at some point in the future? Should there selling price be dictated by a short-term discount that no longer applies?

Those of us who were organised/wealthy/opportunistic/stupid enough to take advantage of the GAK/Bass Direct deals though. If we sell our cabs on, what would be an appropriate price? What we paid for them (minus a bit for wear and tear)? Full price minus wear and tear? A compromise between the two values?

At the end of the day, is that any business of anybody else?

It is an awkward one.

[nottswarwick]

I'd say that if anyone wishes to sell, they do what they would do with any other product.

Supply and demand, and simple economics will determine the true market value. If it is priced too high no one will buy it, simple. I cannot se any moral or ethical issues at all. The market will decide the true and fair price for a transaction in which both parties are happy.

Personally I think you'd get £300. That is what I would pay, for a used but as new cabinet that retails at £380. It doesn't matter what it used to retail at.

[Conan]

[quote name='nottswarwick' timestamp='1384772549' post='2280417']
Personally I think you'd get £300. That is what I would pay, for a used but as new cabinet that retails at £380. It doesn't matter what it used to retail at.
[/quote]

Ah, but it [i][b]doesn't[/b][/i] retail at £380 - not any more. It did for a while, but stocks at that price appear to be exhausted.

If two of these cabs were up for sale, one was originally bought at £780 and one was bought at £380, what would each one be worth if they were of a similar age and condition? The same (as they are the same cab) or different prices because of what the seller paid for them?

I think there [i][b]is[/b][/i] an ethical element to that.

[Old Horse Murphy]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1384680713' post='2279317']
Likewise. Played through it at last night's gig and really struggled to hear myself. Just couldn't seem to find a tone that was pleasing and audible. Never had that problem with my BF Vintage or Compact. The GB cab is also a heck of a lot heavier and much more awkward to move about.

Shame, because I really like the look of it. It is a very solid looking and feeling cab, and a model that I had wanted to try for a long time.

Now we have the awkward question of what it is worth if I decide to sell it!!? Is it fair to charge what the cabs are worth when everyone knows what you paid for them? Does the BC karma machine demand that you charge £379 so that the community can benefit from the GAK super-prices?

Bit of a dilemma that one...
[/quote]

I bought a GB NXT212 about a year ago and gigged with it twice as I couldn't hear anything. I has to turn the mids and treble up significantly on the amp just to help me hear what was going on. I'm sure the huge front porting doesn't help massively with the sounds.

I recently moved to a Bergantino CN212 and the sound difference is remarkable. I'm using the same head as before (GB Shuttlemax 12) but it just works for me.

That said, I know a fair few players using the GB NXT212 who absolutely adore it.

[nottswarwick]

They would be worth what the market decides. The only way to know the figure if for someone to try and sell one at, say £500. See if someone buys it.

I know where you are coming from, and it is interesting,

I paid £500 for a prev model neox212t. That was once a £800 cab too, but I'd not expect to get more than about £300 for it. I base that figure on my usual calculation of 2/3 of the shop price at the time. This usually seems to be about right. So, valuing yours at £300 I am actually being generous in my calculation given what you paid for it.

Ethically, if someone tries to sell one at a price which is too high, no one will buy it.

Personally if I had just bought one of these at £380 and wanted to sell it now, I'd want £300.

[stingrayPete1977]

I have always bought gear to use, possibly to destruction, I paid £800 for mine but that was years ago so its already paid for itself.

The problem for me is not really ethical, its the fact its from a defunct range of gear. Over time that wont matter but in the short term there will be a stigma im certain.

[Conan]

Yeah. So these "bargains" may only be so to the people who dig their sounds...

[matybigfro]

Tecamp s/h values didn't climb that much after the famous Guitar Guitar Sell off

[nottswarwick]

I'd say that the fact that there are a couple of negative comments about the cabs on this thread will not be helping the resale...

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1384777353' post='2280507']
Yeah. So these "bargains" may only be so to the people who dig their sounds...
[/quote]
This is a fact from martin lewis and one worth remembering, its only ever a bargain if you were going to buy one anyway. If someone offered me a Ricky for a grand it might be bargain if I sold it on for a possible profit but I could spend a grand on something I need/want/like and remove the might/if out of the purchase.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='nottswarwick' timestamp='1384774626' post='2280465']
They would be worth what the market decides. The only way to know the figure if for someone to try and sell one at, say £500. See if someone buys it.

I know where you are coming from, and it is interesting,

I paid £500 for a prev model neox212t. That was once a £800 cab too, but I'd not expect to get more than about £300 for it. I base that figure on my usual calculation of 2/3 of the shop price at the time. This usually seems to be about right. So, valuing yours at £300 I am actually being generous in my calculation given what you paid for it.

Ethically, if someone tries to sell one at a price which is too high, no one will buy it.

Personally if I had just bought one of these at £380 and wanted to sell it now, I'd want £300.
[/quote]

£300 is not, IMO, generous. I like my cab and I'm happy to have found a neo cab that ticks all the boxes and isn't £800-1000. For that reason, selling it isn't an issue for me as I won't be selling it.

This type of sale also happened with Tecamp, with GuitarGuitar selling £900 neo 2x12s for about £400. Notice how now the supply/demand has changed and a Tecamp would bring about £600 second hand, at least, in good condition.

The Neox/NX2 has always been a popular cabinet, and always £700-800. It will no doubt continue to be made by Fender. We shall see what the prices change to.

You do realise that £300 would probably not even cover the cost of the drivers in some circumstances? We are talking fairly high end faital neodymium drivers. Neo is still expensive.

If Conan wants to sell for £500, I would not think this is a sneaky way to make profit, its just he was lucky to snag a good cab at a low price.

[BassBunny]

[quote name='matybigfro' timestamp='1384777417' post='2280508']
Tecamp s/h values didn't climb that much after the famous Guitar Guitar Sell off
[/quote]
Probably because none came up F/S.

[nottswarwick]

Fair points.

But look at the prices that many high end cabs sell for on here. It might just be me, but my perception is that many such cabs seem to settle at £300 - £450 ish.

Ok, so maybe £350 ;-/ but it is not what I think thank is important, rather that the market will decide.

I am not 100% with mine (earlier one), but it'll do.

[stingrayPete1977]

Ive got to the point where as long as I can hear something behind me im happy, id use an ashdown rig again if someone else provided it at every gig, I used a trace commando combo for a few gigs that the singer provided to save me taking mine. Im lazy