Nut Filing - Any tips and advice

[Count Bassy]

I need to drop the action at the nut on my Ibanez SR605 a little (1mm at most),and was looking for some advice and hints on how to proceed, and in particular any pit falls to avoid. [size=4]I'm aiming to get the clearance at at the first fret close to that at the second fret when fretting the first (as it is on my 505). [/size]

I'm pretty handy with stuff, but the only nut work I've done was to remove a complete nut, take 1mm off the bottom and then replace it. I've never actually modified a nut slot.

I don't have nut files but I do have a selection of flat, square and round needle files that will fit into the B to D string slots quite comfortably.

Thanks in advance.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Count Bassy

[hamfist]

I've recently started working on the nuts on my basses, and have done 3 now. All with various needle files. All very successfully. In fact I have been very pleased with the results.

My key bit of advice is take it slow, and do it bit by bit.

Also, use 2 layers of insulating tape, or similar, behind the nut to protect the wood.

I found using a smaller needle file than the slot still worked find so long as I took it easy and worked the slot wider slowly.

Lastly, use an old set of roundwound strings of the size you will be using to finish off each slot by running the string back and forth in the slot just like a "smooth file". That will smooth each slot off to the exact size you will need.

As to the angle of the slot, it's difficult to be precise but generally angle the slot back from the front edge, so that the string rests on the exact front of the nut, to get the best intonation from the string.

Oh lastly, I'd be wary of trying to get the clearance at the first fret the same as the 2nd fret clearance whilst fretting on the first fret. That leaves no room for the string "settling" into the slot or for slot wear over the years. I'd leave it just a little higher at the first fret myself.

Edited October 28, 2013 by hamfist

[brensabre79]

I'll only add to the above by saying...

Be VERY careful when running the string back and forth (and the files for that matter) on the outside strings. Make sure the motion is linear, don't pull it left and right to try and widen the slot if you're using a narrow file, you don't want to pull of the little bit of nut between the edge of the neck and the string!

Take it slow, keep checking the height the string sits at under tension. I know its a pain, but if you take off too much Nut, you can't put it back on. It's better to have it slightly too high than slightly too low...

[KiOgon]

+ 1 to all the above &

Needle files are great but the small string slots may need some careful attention with something smaller - like welding tip cleaners - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tip-Cleaner-Needle-file-set-guitar-nut-files-/170996340430?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27d02d16ce

When/if you get a proper set of nut files it all becomes so much easier

[JapanAxe]

Make your own 'zero fret clearance gauge' by capturing and emasculating a gnat.

[stoo]

I've just taken the plunge on doing the same thing for the first time ever - also using random collection of needle files.

I laid a 6" steel rule across the 1st and 2nd frets and then slid it up to the nut to give an indication of how low the bottom of the slot needed to go to, and then slowly worked the slot down until it was almost low enough for the rule to clear it.

Can't believe how much difference a mm or 2 has made!

[gjones]

I'm thinking of doing something similar. The nut on my precision is brass and has been cut perfectly for a low action. In comparison I've noticed the nut on my Jazz is quite high so getting a low action is much more difficult. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread for further advice.

[gjones]

Very good video. Makes it simple when you have the right tools

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI9Y9MsmnEc[/media]


Edit: although the prices of a set of bass guitar nut files are........eh? nuts! They're £72 for a set.

Edited October 28, 2013 by gjones

[KiOgon]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1382977926' post='2258691']
Very good video. Makes it simple when you have the right tools

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI9Y9MsmnEc[/media]
[/quote]It's a good video - but personally I take a much more careful approach & make sure I don't touch the fretboard, frets, tuner post or string with the file I wouldn't let the file 'rock' so much either, It's best to make sure the bottom of the slot is a gentle slope - down to the tuner. Perhaps he's rushing it a bit for the video
I'd say .022" or .55mm is still a big gap, I aim for almost 1/2 that but that's my personal settings - I'm a gentle plucker When the bass is in playing position, I test with a business card (.012 - .015") between the string & 1st fret, but don't go too low.

As stated, to get a low - easy to play action - right along the neck, you need to look at the whole, truss rod, bridge saddle height, possibly shimming the neck & intonation. Then don't forget your pick up height may need adjusting.

[hamfist]

[quote name='KiOgon' timestamp='1382972195' post='2258621']
Needle files are great but the small string slots may need some careful attention with something smaller - like welding tip cleaners - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tip-Cleaner-Needle-file-set-guitar-nut-files-/170996340430?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27d02d16ce
[/quote]

Yes, those welding tip cleaners are exactly what I use. For occasional use and a slow, steady technique they are great, and virtually free !

[Mr. Foxen]

http://www.edgeguitarservices.co.uk/rout_serv/nut_geom.htm

[Count Bassy]

Thanks for all your thoughts chaps,

Ill probably have a go at it next weekend and will report back.

Clive

[hamfist]

The good thing is that if you f*** it up it's only a minor disaster as the nut is a pretty replaceable item after all.

Not like knackering your truss rod or something like that.

Edited October 29, 2013 by hamfist

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='KiOgon' timestamp='1382972195' post='2258621']
+ 1 to all the above &

Needle files are great but the small string slots may need some careful attention with something smaller - like welding tip cleaners - [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tip-Cleaner-Needle-file-set-guitar-nut-files-/170996340430?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27d02d16ce"]http://www.ebay.co.u...=item27d02d16ce[/url]

When/if you get a proper set of nut files it all becomes so much easier
[/quote]

I have both needle files and welding tip cleaners. My first attempt at filing a nut was successful, and improved the bass no end. I used the welding tip cleaners on a guitar too, and that also was a success. I second the recommendation above to take things slowly. My needle files came from Aldi, the welding tip cleaners from ebay.

[ubassman]

If it goes pear shaped you can always to a baking soda + superglue repair.

[gjones]

Interesting stuff about cutting nuts [url="http://www.lutherie.net/nuts.html"]http://www.lutherie.net/nuts.html[/url]

[brensabre79]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1383165649' post='2261158']
Interesting stuff about cutting nuts [url="http://www.lutherie.net/nuts.html"]http://www.lutherie.net/nuts.html[/url]
[/quote]
Thats one of the best tutorials I've seen on the subject actually.
I wish some of the 'luthiers' I've been to would read it.

[skej21]

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1382961628' post='2258398']
I need to drop the action at the nut on my Ibanez SR605 a little (1mm at most),and was looking for some advice and hints on how to proceed, and in particular any pit falls to avoid. [size=4]I'm aiming to get the clearance at at the first fret close to that at the second fret when fretting the first (as it is on my 505). [/size]

I'm pretty handy with stuff, but the only nut work I've done was to remove a complete nut, take 1mm off the bottom and then replace it. I've never actually modified a nut slot.

I don't have nut files but I do have a selection of flat, square and round needle files that will fit into the B to D string slots quite comfortably.

Thanks in advance.
[/quote]

Fender University has a great little video on this;

http://youtu.be/racmaWTYvNg

[OldG]

Easy, quick way to check the slot height ( saves finding the feeler gauges).

Fret the string at the 3rd fret and tap the string with your fingertip onto the top of the first fretwire.

The ideal height yields a click as the string contacts the fret - if there is any discernible movement before the click then you'll need to lower the slot. No click means you have gone too far and you'll need to pack the nut slot and try again.


If you take it very carefully and check progress frequently, it should be difficult to overdo it.



I

[hamfist]

A cautionary tale .....

In my recent new found confidence at nut-filing , I ended up filing the E slot too low on my main bass. The problem was completely caused by inexperience and not using the right tools. I was using the welding tip cleaners, which are significantly narrower than the E, A and D strings. I ended up filing a "waisted" slot on the E. So the string was sitting on the waist, and I was filing the slot underneath it progressively deeper, but each time I checked the string it was too high because, of course, it was sitting on the waist, not at the bottom of the slot. So once I cut the waist out, the slot was too low ! This would not have happened with the correct size nut files (which I seriously considering buying) which cannot really cut a waisted slot. But also, having done this once, I will not do it again, even using my "incorrect" tools.

It's a brass nut, and I have bodged it back up to height with a superglue/kitchen paper mush, which sets amazingly hard. I tried at first with solder (as it is a metal nut) but the solder was too soft. The superglue mush sets much, much harder and seems very firmly attached to the brass.
Sonically, I cannot tell the difference but the longevity of the repair is clearly going to be a doubt. I will change the nut at some point.

So, the moral of the story is that if you are trying to do the job without the ideal tools, take it very, very slowly, and check that there is no daylight under the string when it is settled in it's slot each time you re-check it.

Also, things can be nicely resurrected with superglue and kitchen paper, at least temporarily, if you botch it.

Edited November 2, 2013 by hamfist

[OldG]

I was perhaps a little unclear in my earlier post...If a nut is cut too low - I prefer to remove the nut and use a shim between nut and neck.

Almost invisible and gives you the chance to get it right...

[hamfist]

[quote name='OldG' timestamp='1383390435' post='2263902']
I was perhaps a little unclear in my earlier post...If a nut is cut too low - I prefer to remove the nut and use a shim between nut and neck.

Almost invisible and gives you the chance to get it right...
[/quote]

yes, definitely another option, and one I may consider using. Any thoughts on shim material ?

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1383401600' post='2264086']
yes, definitely another option, and one I may consider using. Any thoughts on shim material ?
[/quote]

Ideally same as nut, brass shim is pretty available. I've used bits of plastic tubs cut up.

[gjones]

I've a set of needle files in the post. I've mucked up cutting nuts before on a cheap replacement neck. I still have that neck so will practice on that first. If I'm still rotten at it or the files are not up to it I'll hand the job over to a pro.

[hamfist]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1383408926' post='2264184']


Ideally same as nut, brass shim is pretty available.
[/quote]

Cool , I'd not have thought it was so easily available, but a quick ebay search shows a multitude of sizes and thicknesses available at very little cost. Thanks !