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Fool for your Loving - Whitesnake - Help

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29 minutes ago, neilmurraybass said:

For some time I've been planning to do 'play along' YouTube videos where I do the bass lines that were on the original tracks, starting with Whitesnake, and that's getting a lot closer to coming to fruition. HOWEVER, it seems that Universal Music Group, who own the rights to Whitesnake songs, are the most notorious company for either getting videos taken down or not permitting anything to be earned from them (ad revenue etc), so I'm now debating whether it's workable, or else find a different way of doing it. As far as I know, they use an algorithm which compares the video's audio with tracks in their database, so theoretically if one changes the speed or the key (not very helpful) it might be possible to get round that. 

On a related matter, a US journalist did a very accurate transcription of the live Fool For Your Loving from Live In The Heart Of The City, and had it accepted, along with an article that I was interviewed for, by US Bass Player magazine. Then the publishers refused to give permission for the transcription to be used, even though I came up with the bass part, not the composers of the song. That was that, then this year the idea was submitted to UK Bass Magazine (who now own Bass Player), but just with short extracts instead of the whole transcription. The extracts were too similar to what I actually played, so now the article might come out, but with no transcribed parts at all, which is a bit pointless.

All I would say Neil is that Troy, the guy responsible for the above play along, is no stranger to having his videos taken down by the You Tube Police - and he’s done quite a few over the years. Pretty much the whole of the Rush catalogue and many others, all played along to the original recording. He’s had various battles with them over the years and I’m sure he would offer advice. I’ll give him a shout. I know he has seen this thread, so I’ll ask him to check back in.

It does seem bonkers that the person who composed the bass line isn’t allowed to make a video on it.

Fingers crossed 🤞.

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That must be really frustrating for any famous bass player who has written a great bassline and can't actually use it. I'm assuming you were part of the band and not just a session guy so should have the same rights to use the bass part in question.

Dave

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Posted (edited)

Rick Beato did a recent rant about his videos from 'what makes this song great' being taken down. Some are better than others.

Edited by Woodinblack

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Increasingly I see that instead of taking these videos down, You Tube are licensing the content.

We have to either watch ads (I completely blank them out TBH) or susbcribe and that partly funds YT licensing the content.

I work in publishing a lot so I'm quite keen to see copyrighted material licensed.

If you view Troy's video on you Tube and click 'see more' you get the information below. Neil may eventually get a tiny amount of performer's royalties (I hope!) but unfortunately no writer's royalty 😞

Morally no different to your pub venue paying PRS to cover the songs performed by cover bands.

Quote

 

Music in this video

Learn more

Listen ad-free with YouTube Premium

Song

Artist

Writers

David Coverdale, Micky Moody, Bernie Marsden

Licensed to YouTube by

WMG; UBEM, EMI Music Publishing, LatinAutor, Warner Chappell, LatinAutor - Warner Chappell, PEDL, ASCAP, LatinAutor - SonyATV, and 4 Music Rights Societies

 

 

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This is now on our list of new songs its a monster baseline which I want to get right as much as possible but is going to take some work.  There are a couple of decent YouTube videos. I'll check the one posted here as well. Wish me luck! 

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5 hours ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

 I’ll give him a shout. I know he has seen this thread, so I’ll ask him to check back in.

I know it's a little off topic but if you do speak to Troy then thank him for his slowed down play along of The Who's 'The Real Me', it helped me massively when learning that song a few months ago 👍

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11 hours ago, mep said:

This is now on our list of new songs its a monster baseline which I want to get right as much as possible but is going to take some work.  There are a couple of decent YouTube videos. I'll check the one posted here as well. Wish me luck! 

If you can copy Troy's clip then you are there. I used to have the music sheet or bass tab and i'll have a look. It helped me when i was learning it about 5 or 6 yrs ago

Dave

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On 15/04/2019 at 16:02, neilmurraybass said:

For some time I've been planning to do 'play along' YouTube videos where I do the bass lines that were on the original tracks, starting with Whitesnake, and that's getting a lot closer to coming to fruition. HOWEVER, it seems that Universal Music Group, who own the rights to Whitesnake songs, are the most notorious company for either getting videos taken down or not permitting anything to be earned from them (ad revenue etc), so I'm now debating whether it's workable, or else find a different way of doing it. As far as I know, they use an algorithm which compares the video's audio with tracks in their database, so theoretically if one changes the speed or the key (not very helpful) it might be possible to get round that. 

On a related matter, a US journalist did a very accurate transcription of the live Fool For Your Loving from Live In The Heart Of The City, and had it accepted, along with an article that I was interviewed for, by US Bass Player magazine. Then the publishers refused to give permission for the transcription to be used, even though I came up with the bass part, not the composers of the song. That was that, then this year the idea was submitted to UK Bass Magazine (who now own Bass Player), but just with short extracts instead of the whole transcription. The extracts were too similar to what I actually played, so now the article might come out, but with no transcribed parts at all, which is a bit pointless.

That is a great shame as I would love to see exactly that video on YouTube. I do hope you manage to find a way round it and, of course, I would be very interested in subscribing to any YT channel you do manage to put up, as I imagine many bass players my age who grew up with your playing would.

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6 minutes ago, peteb said:

That is a great shame as I would love to see exactly that video on YouTube. I do hope you manage to find a way round it and, of course, I would be very interested in subscribing to any YT channel you do manage to put up, as I imagine many bass players my age who grew up with your playing would.

Yep i'd be up for that too. My 2 bigest influences on how i play were Neil and Jack Bruce. Loved the Cozy Powell albums they both took part in.

 

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I do have a YouTube channel, though there's very little on it - nothing so far of my playing (just tried to insert a link to it but Basschat didn't appear to allow that) - look for neilmurraybass, or put Neil Murray in the search bar and scroll down until you find me, ignoring the other Neil Murrays!

Shooting my own videos, as with recording at home, is not something I'm very comfortable with - would much prefer to play with others, with a great engineer and cameraman looking after the technical side of things. Not that I can't do it, it's just a lot more clinical and unstimulating.

Requests for particular songs or aspects you'd like to be covered will hopefully spur met on to actually do it!

 

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34 minutes ago, neilmurraybass said:

I do have a YouTube channel, though there's very little on it - nothing so far of my playing (just tried to insert a link to it but Basschat didn't appear to allow that) - look for neilmurraybass, or put Neil Murray in the search bar and scroll down until you find me, ignoring the other Neil Murrays!

Shooting my own videos, as with recording at home, is not something I'm very comfortable with - would much prefer to play with others, with a great engineer and cameraman looking after the technical side of things. Not that I can't do it, it's just a lot more clinical and unstimulating.

Requests for particular songs or aspects you'd like to be covered will hopefully spur met on to actually do it!

 

The live version of Ain't No Love would be an obvious one - another stellar bass part and hopefully no copyright issues...

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, neilmurraybass said:

I do have a YouTube channel, though there's very little on it - nothing so far of my playing (just tried to insert a link to it but Basschat didn't appear to allow that) - look for neilmurraybass, or put Neil Murray in the search bar and scroll down until you find me, ignoring the other Neil Murrays!

Shooting my own videos, as with recording at home, is not something I'm very comfortable with - would much prefer to play with others, with a great engineer and cameraman looking after the technical side of things. Not that I can't do it, it's just a lot more clinical and unstimulating.

Requests for particular songs or aspects you'd like to be covered will hopefully spur met on to actually do it!

 

The ‘Live...In The Heart Of The City’ album was a massive influence on me. I think I wore my vinyl version out I played it so much. Come On and Sweet Talker are particular favourites of mine. You and Paicey just move those songs along so nicely and there’s some really lovely little fills and interaction there. I hope you’re not going to shatter my illusions and tell me there were lots of overdubs 😀. I dare say you probably never played them exactly the same way twice, but anything covering those two songs would be gratefully received. 

EDIT: plus Micky Moody’s Wah during his solo - brilliant 👍

Edited by hiram.k.hackenbacker

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10 hours ago, neilmurraybass said:

I do have a YouTube channel, though there's very little on it - nothing so far of my playing (just tried to insert a link to it but Basschat didn't appear to allow that) - look for neilmurraybass, or put Neil Murray in the search bar and scroll down until you find me, ignoring the other Neil Murrays!

Shooting my own videos, as with recording at home, is not something I'm very comfortable with - would much prefer to play with others, with a great engineer and cameraman looking after the technical side of things. Not that I can't do it, it's just a lot more clinical and unstimulating.

Requests for particular songs or aspects you'd like to be covered will hopefully spur met on to actually do it!

 

Will definitely subscribing to your channel Neil

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Posted (edited)
On 12/04/2019 at 00:50, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

@neilmurraybass - I thought this might interest you. Troy is very well regarded in respect of the authenticity of his covers and he also raises some interesting questions in respect of how the original version was recorded.

 

A very faithful rendition, in many ways - perhaps 95% correct. It would be almost impossible for me to play the song all the way through exactly the same as the original, partly because I've played it so often since then, and although I stick closely to the album version, I improvise a little. So well done Troy! I have previously recorded the bass line on its own, sticking almost 100% to the recorded version, but that required many drop-ins! Any video would require the same technique, though obviously I could do slowed-down passages too. He uses all four fingers, whereas I mostly use three, bringing in the little finger only when necessary. This is because I play hard, often with heavy or stiff strings - a compromise between ease off playing and the tone needed to cut through two guitars, keyboards & drums.

Having read some of the comments under his video, some are good, but some are the typical American obnoxious haters who are intent on slagging anything and everyone, usually from a position of ignorance, which is another reason why I've been slow to put videos up on there. Bah!

Edited by neilmurraybass
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55 minutes ago, neilmurraybass said:

A very faithful rendition, in many ways - perhaps 95% correct. It would be almost impossible for me to play the song all the way through exactly the same as the original, partly because I've played it so often since then, and although I stick closely to the album version, I improvise a little. So well done Troy! I have previously recorded the bass line on its own, sticking almost 100% to the recorded version, but that required many drop-ins! Any video would require the same technique, though obviously I could do slowed-down passages too. He uses all four fingers, whereas I mostly use three, bringing in the little finger only when necessary. This is because I play hard, often with heavy or stiff strings - a compromise between ease off playing and the tone needed to cut through two guitars, keyboards & drums.

Having read some of the comments under his video, some are good, but some are the typical American obnoxious haters who are intent on slagging anything and everyone, usually from a position of ignorance, which is another reason why I've been slow to put videos up on there. Bah!

But you're a legend in bass. Surely no-one can say anything negative especially when you are helping others learn some very difficult basslines. I wouldn't let them put you off. Think most players have such a high regard for you even those that aren't into rock music regard you as one of the best bassists ever.

I certainly haven't seen a bad word against you Neil. All positive and high praise.

Ignore the idiots and please the fans. :D

Dave 

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Universal own the rights to a chord? that's hard to believe.

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1 hour ago, neilmurraybass said:

Having read some of the comments under his video, some are good, but some are the typical American obnoxious haters who are intent on slagging anything and everyone, usually from a position of ignorance, which is another reason why I've been slow to put videos up on there. Bah!

The trouble is that when someone like yourself posts -  a player of talent and skill, who has been there, played with well known names, toured the world and recorded albums of music that people have actually enjoyed.. it makes a lot of halfwit trolls realise how bad their miserable lives actually are.

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Or you ca be like me - mime the line and pretend it’s you playing - ignorance is bliss

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1 hour ago, Cuzzie said:

Or you ca be like me - mime the line and pretend it’s you playing - ignorance is bliss

Ah much sneakiness Cuzzie. i like your style. A bit like TOTP then :laugh1:

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Imagine Hoddle and Waddle doing Diamond lights with a touch of milli Vanilli - make it much much worse, and you are still nowhere near how bad

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Reading this thread has really taken me back.  I remember seeing Whitesnake at the Hammersmith Odeon as was in about 1980/81, I guess.  Neil Murray - you were definitely on bass.  What a band!  The only album I now own though is 'Live...In the Heart if the City'.  One of the very best live albums - right up there with 'Live and Dangerous' in my book.  And the live version of 'Fool For Your Lovin''!  I doff my cap to you, Mr Murray - what a player!

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