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Wireless Systems for Bass


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[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1389470356' post='2334574']
The presence of an encryption key within the datastream transmission actually helps with RF hence reducing the chance of interference. There is a slight trade off in terms of latency, for example pro systems it adds an almost negligible 0.2ms but with other systems, maybe the AKG, it may be bigger.
[/quote]

If anything, encryption would make problems from interference worse. I don't understand how it could improve them.
It'll stop eavesdropping, but not interference.

Edited by Bankai
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[quote name='Bankai' timestamp='1389802077' post='2338070']
If anything, encryption would make problems from interference worse. I don't understand how it could improve them.
[/quote]

From my Shure ULX-D user manual -

Advanced Encryption Standard (AES-256) for any application where
secure transmission is needed:
• AES algorithm used in Shure ULX-D™ Wireless has been validated
(validation no: 2552) by the National Institute of Standards and
Technology (NIST) as conforming to the Advanced Encryption
Standard (AES) Algorithm, as specified in Federal Information
Processing Standard (FIPS) Publication 197, Advanced Encryption
Standard
• Enabled via front panel menu and IR sync
• [b]Added benefit of eliminating stray RF interference by allowing only [/b]
[b]encrypted signal through to the receiver[/b]

I actually spoke to the Shure UKs wireless guy only last week about this (and some concerns surrounding latency of digital systems) and he discussed that the lack of an encryption key, on a encrypted setup, would cause any signal received over RF without a key, or matching key to be dropped straight away. Without encryption, all digital data streams arriving on the same channel would be processed - hence, the risk of interference from stray RF. His advice, for a more robust transmission, was to take the latency hit as it is so small on most systems.

Just to clarify - I don't think we are saying that adding encryption can improve RF performance in terms of signal strength. And you are right, encryption will also stop eavesdropping (or conversely broadcasting), but we'll have to agree to differ on the interference part.

Edited by EBS_freak
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[quote name='xzodar' timestamp='1389626890' post='2336250']
Great bit of kit though, I've not used it in anger yet but it seems really well put together and 'just works'.
[/quote]

It really is quite special - and if you got it at the Thomann bargain price, you scored double!

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Ok, all the encryption will do is mean that when your transmitter is off, the receiver doesn't receive a signal from another unit.

Only one signal can be transmitted down a channel at once. So if there's two transmitters on a channel (let's call the one you do want A, and the one you don't want B ), there's two 4 possibilities:

Transmitter A is on and B is off. In this case the receiver will receive A

Transmitter A is off and B is on. In this case the receiver won't receive anything because B doesn't have the correct key.

Transmitter A is on and the signal is strong, B is on but weak. The receiver will receive the encryption key from A and thus start receiving, but the transmission will be impaired by B which is also transmitting on the same channel. As such, audio will come through, but will be broken and interfered with by B.

Transmitter A is on and the signal is weak, and B is on and strong. The receiver will receive the signal from A, but as B is stronger it will dominate. As such the receiver won't 'hear' the correct encryption and as such will not give any audio, despite A transmitting with the correct key in the background.

Edited by Bankai
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[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1390166474' post='2342280']
OK, does the encryption mean that you'll have issues if you swap basses and use two different transmitters with a single receiver?
[/quote]

No, you just need to make sure they use the same settings.

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[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1390166474' post='2342280']
OK, does the encryption mean that you'll have issues if you swap basses and use two different transmitters with a single receiver?
[/quote]

No encryption on DWZB30GB anyway so you'll be ok ;)

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[quote name='dudewheresmybass' timestamp='1390231914' post='2342889']
Has anyone seen this?

[url="http://www.gak.co.uk/en/alesis-guitarlink-wireless/88573?gclid=CL_kn-OFjbwCFTDMtAod8x4ApA"]http://www.gak.co.uk...CFTDMtAod8x4ApA[/url]

The price seems almost too good to be true. Doubt I'll be shedding my x2 any time soon, but I do like to keep abreast of these things!
[/quote]

I've got one.

Decent little unit - pain the arse having a built in cable.

Seem to get pretty decent range out of it too!

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[quote name='woodyratm' timestamp='1390234577' post='2342929']
I've got one.

Decent little unit - pain the arse having a built in cable.

Seem to get pretty decent range out of it too!
[/quote]

Pain in the arse for two reasons - fixed cable. And AAAs!!

Still, for the money, you can't really complain. I'm umming and arring about whether it will be a good way of keyboards to the PA...

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[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1390236472' post='2342962']
Pain in the arse for two reasons - fixed cable. And AAAs!!

Still, for the money, you can't really complain. I'm umming and arring about whether it will be a good way of keyboards to the PA...
[/quote]

Also true.

If you're like me, and get wrapped up in cables but dont move 50 miles away - it's not bad! :)

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[quote name='lowregisterhead' timestamp='1390289036' post='2343520']
I hope I'm not breaking any forum rules here, but I have a Shure system for sale - [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/226383-shure-slx4-wireless-system-l100"]http://basschat.co.u...ess-system-l100[/url]
[/quote]

Should probably state that it's illegal to use in the UK too - try hitting up the appropriate countries on ebay?

Edited by EBS_freak
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[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1390236472' post='2342962']
Pain in the arse for two reasons - fixed cable. And AAAs!!

Still, for the money, you can't really complain. I'm umming and arring about whether it will be a good way of keyboards to the PA...
[/quote]

What's wrong with a fixed cable? Provided it's properly attached with strain relief fitting, then it's one less connection to go wrong.

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[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1390311103' post='2343843']
What's wrong with a fixed cable? Provided it's properly attached with strain relief fitting, then it's one less connection to go wrong.
[/quote]

But when it does go wrong, it's not the case of just swapping it out for a new one. If it's going to break, it's on the gig... and nobody wants to get their soldering iron out on a gig.

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[quote name='lowregisterhead' timestamp='1390320695' post='2344015']
Read some more, and you appear to be quite right - anything from 790-862 MHz now seems to be off limits. I bought the system off eBay at the beginning of last year, but of course the seller failed to mention it was about to become obsolete... now to email Shure and see if it can be re-tuned, or whether it will be consigned to the recycling centre... :angry:
[/quote]

There's a load of guys selling off gear on ebay which are on the wrong frequencies in the hope that somebody will snag it up as a bargain. I've bought wireless equipment off eBay and it's always the first question I ask if they haven't made the frequency specifications clear. If they haven't made it clear, they either genuinely don't know (like yourself) or know full well and have deliberately hidden the fact. (You'll know the latter when they fail to respond or don't answer the question directly! - fobbed off with things like, no interference anywhere, it works on a range of frequencies, it's perfect etc...).

I would hazard a guess that retuning is going to be economically not viable - and a lot of the manufacturers will only rehash the top end equipment - usually at a cost of hundreds of pounds. The most economically viable solution is to buy yourself a new unit, or sell it on as spares etc on eBay.

In the UK, you are looking primarily at channel 38 and 70. There are fixed site licenses/event licenses but you have to apply serperately for those - and I guess you and the typical wireless user are looking at using the unit on your travels.

The thing which sucks about this unit is that it looks like it has come from Europe (or been bought without knowledge of the licenses from somewhere like Thomann and imported) - and like everybody, Europe have closed down that frequency due to 4G. I can't imagine you being able to use the unit legally anywhere due to the 4G networks taking upmost priority in the spectrum allocation. It looks like Australia has still got some of the band available but is shutting it down by the end of the year.

I'm sorry but it sounds like you've been duped :(

You weren't the first and you certainly won't be the last.

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[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1390322647' post='2344050']
There's a load of guys selling off gear on ebay which are on the wrong frequencies in the hope that somebody will snag it up as a bargain. I've bought wireless equipment off eBay and it's always the first question I ask if they haven't made the frequency specifications clear. If they haven't made it clear, they either genuinely don't know (like yourself) or know full well and have deliberately hidden the fact. (You'll know the latter when they fail to respond or don't answer the question directly! - fobbed off with things like, no interference anywhere, it works on a range of frequencies, it's perfect etc...).

I would hazard a guess that retuning is going to be economically not viable - and a lot of the manufacturers will only rehash the top end equipment - usually at a cost of hundreds of pounds. The most economically viable solution is to buy yourself a new unit, or sell it on as spares etc on eBay.

In the UK, you are looking primarily at channel 38 and 70. There are fixed site licenses/event licenses but you have to apply serperately for those - and I guess you and the typical wireless user are looking at using the unit on your travels.

The thing which sucks about this unit is that it looks like it has come from Europe (or been bought without knowledge of the licenses from somewhere like Thomann and imported) - and like everybody, Europe have closed down that frequency due to 4G. I can't imagine you being able to use the unit legally anywhere due to the 4G networks taking upmost priority in the spectrum allocation. It looks like Australia has still got some of the band available but is shutting it down by the end of the year.

I'm sorry but it sounds like you've been duped :(

You weren't the first and you certainly won't be the last.
[/quote]

Thanks for the info - the system has now been withdrawn from sale on the forum, and I'm looking at various options from selling it online in Sub-Saharan Africa, to propping up the wobbly wardrobe in the spare room. The second option seems the firm favourite at the moment... :unsure:

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  • 3 weeks later...

[color=#000000][font=Helvetica]I just bought a StageClix Pack system, and although the overall sound quality is good, there is an audible 'fizz' behind the sound when I play my basses through it. It's not present when I stop playing (when no audio signal is being sent). I have adjusted the outputs of the different basses I've used to ensure the transmitter or receiver aren't being overdriven, but the fizzing sound persists.[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Helvetica]When I use a cable, the sound isn't there, which would eliminate the amp or cabinet. I use an EBS TD650 and EBS Proline 410 cabinets. I have tried a variety of active and passive basses, but there is no difference. It's not excessively loud, and in a live setting it probably wouldn't be too noticeable, but it's still irritating.[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Helvetica]Is this normal, i.e. some sort of background carrier signal, or is the unit faulty and should I return it to the supplier?[/font][/color]

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[quote name='lowregisterhead' timestamp='1391757432' post='2360896']
[color=#000000][font=Helvetica]I just bought a StageClix Pack system, and although the overall sound quality is good, there is an audible 'fizz' behind the sound when I play my basses through it. It's not present when I stop playing (when no audio signal is being sent). I have adjusted the outputs of the different basses I've used to ensure the transmitter or receiver aren't being overdriven, but the fizzing sound persists.[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Helvetica]When I use a cable, the sound isn't there, which would eliminate the amp or cabinet. I use an EBS TD650 and EBS Proline 410 cabinets. I have tried a variety of active and passive basses, but there is no difference. It's not excessively loud, and in a live setting it probably wouldn't be too noticeable, but it's still irritating.[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Helvetica]Is this normal, i.e. some sort of background carrier signal, or is the unit faulty and should I return it to the supplier?[/font][/color]
[/quote]

Doesn't sound right to me... all my digital systems are super quiet - as in faultless transmission, no fizz or anything.

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[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1391774408' post='2361111']

Doesn't sound right to me... all my digital systems are super quiet - as in faultless transmission, no fizz or anything.
[/quote]

Thanks, I thought as much. I've finally received an acknowledgment email from StageClix... on the third attempt. Hopefully I should get some sort of response from their 'Technical Team' in the next few days. I'll post when I do....

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Just out of interest, why did you get the Stageclix? Not that there is anything wrong with it, just trying to understand why people choose what they choose. For example, for me, not having the ability to put new batteries in would be a big no for me.

If it all turns into a nightmare, sack it off and get a Sony DWZB30GB,

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