Are the BEATLES vicariously responsible for the mediocrity of mainstream pop music?

[peteb]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1370560141' post='2102889']
Pop music pre 1962 really was awful.
[/quote]Early Elvis, Chuck Berry, Muddy Waters?? I would suggest that not all of it was...

[Cat Burrito]

Is there an echo in here Peteb?

[Lowender]

There are highs and lows in pop music. There are exceptions of course, but in general...

Highs -- Big band era, late 60's, early 70's, scattered 80's.

Lows, The 50's, 2000's

Look at the Billboard Top 100. In the late 60's there were about 30 great songs each year. But the 90's there were maybe 3.

[peteb]

[quote name='BurritoBass' timestamp='1370560806' post='2102897']
Is there an echo in here Peteb?
[/quote]
You hit the post button just before me!

Just goes to show, mediocre minds think alike...

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1370560141' post='2102889']
Pop music pre 1962 really was awful.
[/quote]
If you count this as Pop music then as far as i'm concerned the Beatles arrival in the charts three years later was a bit of a let down although i didn't think it at the time. Looking back Vince Taylor was exactly what your mum, dad and teachers didn't want you to become. The leather clad rebel. The Fab Four came along in their smart suits and amusing haircuts and became the acceptable side of Pop who even your Granny liked.

http://youtu.be/W2j7sLUDkDM

[peteb]

I think that this thread might end up following in the wake of the epic Fab 4 thread of a while ago!

In answer to the question asked by the OP, I would say no! The Beatles were undoubtedly the biggest and most influential pop group of all, but I don't that their influence extends to all popular music as some have suggested and with the advent of hip hop & R&B dominating the charts, I would suggest that record companies have finally stopped looking for the 'next Beatles'!

I suppose that you could say that they unwittingly established the template for every godawful boy band that is pushed by the industry, but it is a bit unfair to blame them for that...

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1370564286' post='2102928']
I suppose that you could say that they unwittingly established the template for every godawful boy band that is pushed by the industry, but it is a bit unfair to blame them for that...
[/quote]

Particularly as proto boy bands existed [i]long[/i] before the Beatles. All those 50's doo-wop combos - harmonies, 'cheeky' lead vocalists, choreographed dancing and satanic managers. Could one even describe The Ink Spots as a boy band? Perhaps.



Were the 50's a low point for popular music? Rockabilly? Country Pop? Rock and Roll? Chicago Blues? I suppose not much of that stuff got played in the UK.

Dickie Valentine. H'mmm.

Edited June 7, 2013 by skankdelvar

[chris_b]

Chaps, I would call your examples of pre 1962 music R&B, Blues and Rock and Roll.

I've got a lot of that stuff on record and while much of it reached the charts I still wouldn't call it pop music.

[Lowender]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1370565455' post='2102938']
Chaps, I would call your examples of pre 1962 music R&B, Blues and Rock and Roll.

I've got a lot of that stuff on record and while much of it reached the charts I still wouldn't call it pop music.
[/quote]

It wasn't. Just as John Coltrane wasn't pop music. R&B was a cultural and regional thing. Of course, Elvis was influenced by it and brought it to a mainstream audience and THAT became the beginning of pop rock and roll . But most of the hit music of the 50's and early 50's was sappy junk. The war was over. People were prospering and all they wanted was to fall in love and get married and the music reflected that.

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1370546351' post='2102574']
Is the music INDUSTRY still thinking that to get another Beatles on their disgusting leeching books, they have to find a band that sounds like them in modern guise? Have the Beatles unwittingly created a set of boundaries that the industry is incapable of transcending in its quest for massive pop hits? Have they misjudged the young so much that they think they cant accept real innovation in mainstream pop music?
[/quote]

Nigel old chap I get your point but cant help thinking your logic is slightly flawed

there will never be 'another beatles' in the same way there has never been another mozart or bach - there will be many who achieve similar or equal critical acclaim and popularity, but never 'another'

if im reading your OP correctly then im reading that your not blaming the beatles for being so good, but more the music industry execs for trying to exploit anything/everything that even remotely copmpares? after all to blame the beatles for causing our current malaise of mediocrity would be like blaming tim berners-lee for the pernicious targetted advertising tactics of google

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1370546351' post='2102574']
Have they misjudged the young so much that they think they cant accept real innovation in mainstream pop music?[/quote]

On the contrary they seem to be judging them very well and very cynically with force feeding them the sort of pap that will continue to help line their pockets - unfortunately for the 'record machine' the increasingly rapid changes of format have proved to be a tiny bit irksome for their rather one-sided marketing models and as times change ever more rapidly so their tactics will become ever more desperate and shoddy to keep apace i fear

but as Alanis would say, isnt it ironic that vinyl is becoming soo fashionableagain and i bet theyre absolutley seeting about it as the resurgance in interest seems to be driven more by the music buying public supporting independent music shops (we have one here in medway which is thriving while neighbouring hmv struggle!) than anything promoted or driven by the industry

edit- i think skank and risingson points about moral fibre and mediocrity can be influenced by geography too - if youre unfortunate that you live in an area with hardly any local creative arts scene then the wealth and diversity of new and young bands who shun the Simon Cowell marketing model will not be readily available for your entertainment and if you dont have the means to be able to easily travel to the next 'big town' then you can find yourself unfortunately at the mercy of whatever the tv/radio/internet is trying to force feed you this week - to demonstrate a simple point ive not even checked and im not going to even bother thinking about checking, but i am very confident in predicting that the recent tulisa/coke slow-mo car crash being dragged out in the media will only increase the poor unfortunate trollop's sales/download figures (back to skanks lack of moral fibre again)

further edit (just for Nige) - FZ summed this up quite nicely many years ago in the lyrics of 'I'm The Slime' (as did Hiphoprisy with their one hit wonder!)

Edited June 7, 2013 by steve-bbb

[Spoombung]

Jimmy Hendrix and Eric Clapton created far more damage than the Beatles, set Pop music back years and spawned Pub Rock[b]™ [/b]

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1370597389' post='2103146']
Jimmy Hendrix and Eric Clapton created far more damage than the Beatles, set Pop music back years and spawned Pub Rock[b]™ [/b]
[/quote]
Having being a regular punter on the Pub Rock scene in the 70s i'm not sure how these two popular guitarists had much to do with Pub Rock. One died some years before the genre really got going and apart from that the other one also played a popular make of guitar often seen hung around the neck of a pub rocker (although the Telecaster seemed a more popular choice) i don't see the connection.

Oh and by the way, yes and yes!

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1370553492' post='2102765']
all I will say on this matter is number nine
number nine

number nine

number nine

number nine

number nine

number nine

number nine

number nine

number nine

number nine

number nine

number nine

number nine

number nine

number nine

number nine

number nine

number nine
[/quote]

Best thing the Beatles ever did, bar none, set everyone up to do sampling and tape loops, and cool stuff. not the first to do it, but certainly the first mainstream act to do it.

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1370561867' post='2102906']
There are highs and lows in pop music. There are exceptions of course, but in general...

Highs -- Big band era, late 60's, early 70's, scattered 80's.

Lows, The 50's, 2000's

Look at the Billboard Top 100. In the late 60's there were about 30 great songs each year. But the 90's there were maybe 3.
[/quote]

With respect, this is a matter of taste, the 50s had the Elvis, Buddy Holly and Gene Vincent, they were popular, it is pop music. The 80s on the other hand, were utter and complete sh*te for the whole decade.


(Just going for a sweeping generalisation, thought that was what we were doing?)

[fumps]

Nige my answer is no!

There will never be another Beatles. A band nowadays have the half live of 5 mins....they do an album that goes mental in sales, second album is always not as good because the record company puts pressure on the band to get something out asap.....then the third album is usually a little shakey (Usually because of the reviews they have had from the 2nd album has shaken their confidence). At this point a band either sinks or swims. the best bands find their feet & start making great music.

But before this happens with modern bands they are dropped. This is why we will only get the odd "Great" pop band, but most will never get the chance to become great.

Does the Beatles influence music today? yes they basically refined the rule book & made it easier to understand for the modern age, they took what was already going on & made it better for all who are about to follow them.

Will we see another band like them ? No.....Can you imagine a top pop band doing a Sgt Pepper nowadays ? .....their career would be over instantly !

Do I like the Beatles & their music ? No cant get into them but I can see & appreciate what they achieved

[paul h]

I don't actually think modern pop music is mediocre. Or certainly it's not any more or any less mediocre than any other era or genre of music.

I admit that I don't listen to a huge amount of it but although what I do hear can be a bit samey, that can be said of any genre of music can't it? And at the end of the day it is of course all highly subjective. I for one would rather listen to Little Mix than any number of leather trousered, shirt opened, microphone swinging, Les Paul playing, classic rock bands.

So as I don't actually agree with the premise of the OP I realise now I don't really have anything to contribute so I will back away hoping nobody noticed me come in

[Dad3353]

[quote]Are the BEATLES vicariously responsible for the mediocrity of mainstream pop music?[/quote]

Matron..! Matron..? Xilddx is being troublesome again..! Shouldn't he still be in the corner..? Matron..?

(Never there when needed..! Typical...)

([i]goes into corridor, in search of authority[/i]...)

[i][size=3]Matron..! [size=2]Matron..?[/size][/size][/i]

[i][size=3][size=2] [/size][/size][/i]

[Colonel36]

Not bad for a "B" side.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBP3nq0OtZE

[steve-bbb]

Nige can i ask? is your John Lennonophobia similar to my Liam Gallagherophobia

like youd rather rip his face from his skull with a claw hammer than listen to his insidious nasal whining ?

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1370602835' post='2103252']
Matron..! Matron..? Xilddx is being troublesome again..! Shouldn't he still be in the corner..? Matron..?

(Never there when needed..! Typical...)

([i]goes into corridor, in search of authority[/i]...)

[i][size=3]Matron..! [size=2]Matron..?[/size][/size][/i]

[i][size=3][size=2] [/size][/size][/i]
[/quote]

this made me lol teehee

[xilddx]

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1370618352' post='2103582']
Nige can i ask? is your John Lennonophobia similar to my Liam Gallagherophobia

like youd rather rip his face from his skull with a claw hammer than listen to his insidious nasal whining ?
[/quote]
Somewhat perhaps But Liam's just a thick c*nt with an attitude, Lennon was a highly intelligent and articulate person who took delight in belittling people for pleasure. I understand he apologised occasionally but I can't abide that sort of emotional cruelty. It's so f***ing hard for me to like his music because of that, but nevertheless, I adore She Said She Said.

[johnny_frog]

In a democracy, people get the [s]government[/s] music they deserve.

[Cat Burrito]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1370562887' post='2102914']
You hit the post button just before me!

Just goes to show, mediocre minds think alike...
[/quote]
I figured as much and indeed

[Phil Adams]

String 'em up, that's what I say.

[xilddx]

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1370618409' post='2103585']
this made me lol teehee
[/quote]


But this is the thing, I'm not being naughty in this instance. It was a partially formed train of thought that I decided to solicit opinion on, but also I wondered if people wuld be able to discuss it objectively, it's clear that some can and some are made completely thought-blind when the Beatles are mentioned.

I was not implicating the Beatles directly and I thought I'd made that clear, said to read all my post, but still some people didn't and their comments reflected that.

The phenomenon of the Beatles is very interesting, their influence should be discussed, but it's largely a waste of f***ing time innit There have been a few very good posts on here though.

[Stan_da_man]

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1370546775' post='2102584']
No.
[/quote]
Plus the one.

Are these threads created to just start pointless arguments on the forum between members? Seems like it to me.