rickenbacker police

[teaser360]

I cant believe that gumtree have removed my add for my tokai rockinbetter

[font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]"We have reason to believe that your ad is offering an item that infringes on intellectual property (IP) rights. It is likely that the IP rights owner has contacted us to alert us to this ad."[/size][/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]I havent put a picture of there headstock and in no way have i said it looks or plays or even mentioned the rickenf***er name.[/size][/font][attachment=129873:post-11298-0-25122800-1350840696 (1).jpg]

[Protium]

Put it back on with a disclaimer stating there are no infringes of IP as it doesn't show the headstock

[stingrayPete1977]

I had all my eBay listings pulled (about 12 various items) as I had a Les Paul copy listed as a copy with a BIN price of £65! Some dick with nothing better to do had reported to eBay and as copies are not allowed they removed it and all my other listings

[icastle]

I think Gumtree and eBay both have thousands of reports of 'fake' goods every day and don't have the luxury of analysing the implications of whether a headstock is shown in the photographs or a brand name inferred in the description.

Being the size they are, they also make a very profitable target for litigation.

I totally agree that it's a pain in the nether regions, but you can't really blame Gumtree or eBay for protecting themselves...

[Big_Stu]

There was a JB Rick that lasted for ages on Ebay because it just showed a pickup & "a 70's classic tribute" (as opposed to "copy") in the description.
IIRC it didn't sell but that may have been just the price that stopped it.

There must be a way around Mr J (A)Hall, could well be that he has Rockinbetter among keywords that searches all ads?

[Roger2611]

I have to say this whole thing really confuses me, has Mr Hall taken Tokai etc to task over these blatent copies / tribute instruments? if not why not? it seems very petty to be chasing an end user who may well be selling said instrument to get the cash to buy the real thing!

I have owned a Rockinbetter and thought it was a pretty good bass (as with all Tokai's I have owned) I am now in a position where I could buy the real thing and I expect it would be a cracking bass but given Mr Hall's aggresive approach on these copies I haven't and probably never will buy one.

I still own a Tokai 335 copy which is so good it actually inspired me to buy the genuine Gibson version, it was a fantastic guitar, it was a lot better than the Tokai but I couldn't get on with the nitro finish on the neck so we parted company but it is a clear example that sometimes owning a decent copy will lead on to buying the real thing

[teaser360]

dont think i would bother now, they have rattled my cage now, always loved the way they look and would have loved to own a real ric,

[Lozz196]

It`s low-rent behaviour of a company that really should hold itself up a bit better. Petty beyond belief. Imitation is the best form of flattery, after all.

[EBS_freak]

I still don't understand why manufacturers would want to copy something so pants to start with anyway...?

[skej21]

I had the money in my bank to buy my first Rickenbacker about 2 weeks before they started their pathetic policing of this forum and others. Needless to say that money went elsewhere and they will never, ever get my money. They should put their energy into making instruments and a brand that people value and feel is worth buying and marketing them properly so that people put faith into their brand and heritage over a copy. Next they'll be shutting down Fender and Gibson for having 4 string basses that might offer competition... Truly pathetic, childish and downright petty behaviour IMO.

[Musky]

There have been a lot of threads covering this. A good place to start might be [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/190096-so-a-rockinbetter-isnt-a-rickenbacker-a-rockinbetter-isnt-a-tokai"]http://basschat.co.u...er-isnt-a-tokai[/url] or search the rickenfaker thread for Rockinbetter (there were some suggestions on how to list an ad recently, though you might be on the radar now).

The long and short of it is that Ebay will pull an auction as soon as they receive a vero report - they have no interest in getting involved in any disputes.

[quote name='Protium' timestamp='1363196224' post='2009638']
Put it back on with a disclaimer stating there are no infringes of IP as it doesn't show the headstock
[/quote]
I know RIC claim they have trade dress recognised in their designs, but I've no idea which jurisdiction the court covered (presumably the US) or if that ruling has international implications. But in any case Ebay don't want to get involved for the sake of a few quid in sale fees.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Musky

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1363202531' post='2009800']
I still don't understand why manufacturers would want to copy something so pants to start with anyway...?
[/quote]
Cheeky

[neepheid]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1363196292' post='2009641']
Some dick with nothing better to do had reported to eBay and as copies are not allowed they removed it and all my other listings
[/quote]

WTF? How? I've reported many actual fakes to eBay and they've done the square root of naff all about it.

[SlapbassSteve]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1363203540' post='2009818']
I had the money in my bank to buy my first Rickenbacker about 2 weeks before they started their pathetic policing of this forum and others. Needless to say that money went elsewhere and they will never, ever get my money. They should put their energy into making instruments and a brand that people value and feel is worth buying and marketing them properly so that people put faith into their brand and heritage over a copy. Next they'll be shutting down Fender and Gibson for having 4 string basses that might offer competition... Truly pathetic, childish and downright petty behaviour IMO.
[/quote]

I've been there too, had the money almost completely saved up to buy my dream fireglo 4003 but as soon as I heard about the way the company was acting(and tbh more importantly the effect this was then having on the resale prices of real ricks, which curiously went through the floor as soon as Mr Hall started all this rickstapo nonsense) I put the money into a Markbass rig and a battered Hondo II copy instead. Money well spent [size=4] [/size]

[gjones]

Does Rickenbacker make any models overseas? I can't see any evidence that they do, so have to assume they don't. Trying to fight manufacturers in the far east making copies is a losing battle. They should do what Fender did and licence Rickenbackers to be made overseas. At least that way you get something from the thousands of copies made rather than nothing at all.

[Stacker]

Gumtree, now, eh? Doesn't surprise me as they have been ebay-owned for several years now. But, yeah, looks like someone is patrolling Gumtree or is it a bot looking for keywords? It seems to be the private, 2nd-hand sellers that are targetted. Why don't you put it up again and see if John Hall contacts you directly and with vitriol, like he has with some sellers in the past?

[lojo]

It's very interesting to read that 2 people in this thread alone have scrapped thier plans to buy a real
Ric due to the company image not impressing them, it won't take longvforvthis to spread around the bass playing community, they really should take note.

[Stacker]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1363245066' post='2010268']
It's very interesting to read that 2 people in this thread alone have scrapped thier plans to buy a real
Ric due to the company image not impressing them, it won't take longvforvthis to spread around the bass playing community, they really should take note.
[/quote]

I think our chums on the other side of the pond (esp the denouncers in the Rickenwaffen) are aware of people shying away from RIC over in Europe after the takedowns we have seen over the last couple of years. I sold all my Rick basses last year after the multiple attack on a BCer's ebay sale which culminated in a nsaty email from John Hall himself. I would not patronise Rickenbacker ever again though I'd gladly have a Greco 4001s copy, if I could get my hands on one!

Edited March 14, 2013 by Stacker

[police squad]

I had this problem trying to sell a retrovibe rv4.
My ad got pulled 3 times from ebay, even though I didn't put a picture of the headstock etc etc.
My account got suspended.
didn't matter as I sold it on here.

a 200 hundred pound guitar WILL NOT affect the R company at all.

[charic]

Here's a thought... try selling it to Mr Hall himself saying you will happily help his claim along it's way by selling it to him and allowing him to do with it as he wishes for £XXX

[discreet]

Americans, eh? On the one hand t[size=4]hey get all uptight about trademark infringement, yet on the other cheerfully sanction the murder of countless innocent children with their flying death-robots. Livin' the dream! [/size]

[fumps]

I always liked Ric's .......Now as a free thinking person that brand will always represent pettiness & over protection. everything I hate in big business.

Now I'm an ex fan

[EBS_freak]

[sup]The sadistic humour in me thinks it would be funny to set up thousands of fake ads of non existent fake Rics all over the net. Should keep the Ric patrol busy for a while.[/sup]

[flyfisher]

My understanding is that copyright/trademark owners are legally obliged to take action to protect their IP otherwise their ownership claim can be weakened.

However, I entirely understand the anti 'Ric police' sentiments, so it's a delicate balance for them - damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Of course, their legal advisers will no doubt advise they pursue every known infringement because that's the 'legally correct' advice (and it's good work for the lawyers).

Whether such action against individual owners is a good thing for the reputation and longevity of the business is another thing altogether.

Edited March 14, 2013 by flyfisher

[EBS_freak]

They'll never win. Far Eastern law means the manufacturers are untouchable.