Flipping basses on BC

[davehux]

My standard tactic is to buy high and sell low. Does this make me a flopper, not a flipper?

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='mckendrick' timestamp='1360527070' post='1971876']
I thought that was out of bounds...?[/quote]

No, more of a no-go zone.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1360526391' post='1971851']
I'll say something, though---in the current climate I'd be seriously impressed if anyone is able to consistently buy and sell stuff and actually make any real money on it. Bargains are available to everyone, its a bad time to be selling *anything*.
[/quote]

Very glad to see someone make this point.

Very broadly, prices have been sliding since the peak in roughly 2008. They haven't slid smoothly, it's more like a staircase with them holding for a while before an abrupt jolt downwards, usually just after Xmas.

I'm sure that flippers still exist, but there can't be many and I doubt if it's much of a lifestyle enhancer ...

[Shambo]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1360526391' post='1971851']
So, let me see if I get this straight.

I buy a bass on ebay, for a steal---the seller doesn't know what they've got, bad pictures, silly auction times, local collection only, whatever. Two weeks later I get made redundant. In that situation I should turn round to my wife and say "yes dear, I know we have to pay the mortgage and feed our child, and that that bass is worth £400 more than I paid for it any day of the week, but I can't sell it for its true market value because that wouldn't be cool" . Right you are.
[/quote]
Nope, I'm not talking about ebay. Never mentioned it. I'm talking about Basschat only, buying and selling within the community. How much community is left?

Edited February 10, 2013 by Shambo

[GuyR]

The single least relevant issue in determining the value of a commodity - in this case a bass- is what the seller paid for it.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1360526391' post='1971851']
So, let me see if I get this straight.

I buy a bass on ebay...........
[/quote]

You can stop there, you haven't.

[Clarky]

I believe BC is a community and a great information resource on all aspects of bass playing. When I buy and sell I deliberately do not make a profit. In fact I have an embarrassing nine pages of feedback and have not knowingly profited from a single one of those deals. Maybe I am an idealistic mug but I believe in karma and would like to think I am treated well by other BC'ers as a consequence. I do not like seeing flipping on BC but there's 'eff all I can do it about it. DIfferent strokes for different folks. Everyone lives by their own moral compass and we have to accept this, in my view. No point setting rules about this on BC like minimum holding/re-selling periods.

[Shambo]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1360526871' post='1971869']
For me it works largely like this:

I won`t pay any more for an item than I think it`s worth
If I sell it on, it will be at the price I bought it at. If I`ve spent a fair bit on the item, I`ll try to recoup some of that by upping the price accordingly.[/quote]
That's what I would do as well.

Not so long ago, I remember a forum member snapping up a CS Fender Jazz for a great price, which he then proceeded to sell a few days later at a figure he thought was nearer market value. The general vocal opinion, at the time on the thread, was that he was taking the piss out of his fellow forum members and that if he wanted to flip it, he could at least have the decency to do it on ebay or somewhere else.

I thought it was a credit to the forum that he was called out about it at the time. I was just wondering if that attitude has gone by the wayside?

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1360535536' post='1972075']
I believe BC is a community and a great information resource on all aspects of bass playing. When I buy and sell I deliberately do not make a profit. In fact I have an embarrassing nine pages of feedback and have not knowingly profited from a single one of those deals. Maybe I am an idealistic mug but I believe in karma and would like to think I am treated well by other BC'ers as a consequence. I do not like seeing flipping on BC but there's 'eff all I can do it about it. DIfferent strokes for different folks. Everyone lives by their own moral compass and we have to accept this, in my view. No point setting rules about this on BC like minimum holding/re-selling periods.
[/quote]

You sir - are a gentleman and a scholar. You "get it".

[Shambo]

[quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1360535536' post='1972075']
I believe BC is a community and a great information resource on all aspects of bass playing. When I buy and sell I deliberately do not make a profit. In fact I have an embarrassing nine pages of feedback and have not knowingly profited from a single one of those deals. Maybe I am an idealistic mug but I believe in karma and would like to think I am treated well by other BC'ers as a consequence. I do not like seeing flipping on BC but there's 'eff all I can do it about it. DIfferent strokes for different folks. Everyone lives by their own moral compass and we have to accept this, in my view. No point setting rules about this on BC like minimum holding/re-selling periods.
[/quote]
Clarky, if you wanted to buy something of mine I would sort you out an old school 'basschat' price. Not try and screw you for every last penny like some other forum members would appear to gladly admit to.

*disclaimer* - I have nothing you want!

[tedmanzie]

Is there anyone actually doing this mythical 'flipping' apart from the one example mentioned above? I'm not an expert but I don't see any evidence of this on the site. All I see is a large amount of nice but unsold basses steadily getting reduced in price, while we argue about the terrifying prospect of someone making fifty quid profit The prices always seem pretty keen here and anything that isn't just drops down the listings unsold doesn't it?

Maybe these [i]Professional Flippers[/i] are the members who can barely operate their digital cameras and can't get a single decent picture into their advert!

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Shambo' timestamp='1360534452' post='1972059']
Nope, I'm not talking about ebay. Never mentioned it. I'm talking about Basschat only, buying and selling within the community. How much community is left?
[/quote]

At no point did you specify you were meaning solely on basschat. Your original post says "buying basses cheaply and flipping them". Is buying stuff cheap on eBay and selling it for its real value here ok?

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360534662' post='1972065']
You can stop there, you haven't.
[/quote]

Translation: you don't have a logical counter-argument

[quote name='Shambo' timestamp='1360536454' post='1972093']
Clarky, if you wanted to buy something of mine I would sort you out an old school 'basschat' price.[i] Not try and screw you for every last penny[/i] like some other forum members would appear to gladly admit to.

[/quote]

Oh, please. Nobody is getting screwed. Nobody is being forced to buy anything. Nobody is talking about people doing anything other than selling stuff for its "true" value. If the free market says that something is worth £X then selling it for £X is not screwing anyone.

I've sold a few things here for good prices. I've tried to pass on savings---because I can afford to. Its great that so many people see this as a community---but to pass judgement on people because of the price they ask for something, when you know little to nothing about them, is just silly.

For the record---buying stuff cheap from the classifieds just to sell it on is a little off, yes. But if it was here, on the classifieds, for cheap, then its already been offered to the community. People on this site know their stuff, if its selling cheap its probably because the market is really, really slow, so selling it on for more will almost certainly be very hard.

[chris_b]

[quote name='Shambo' timestamp='1360506154' post='1971329']
...as in selling them quickly for profit. Or am I being too wishy washy? Is it a dog eat dog, free for all now?....

....Has the will of the forum changed?....
[/quote]

Presumably you sell gear for what you think it's worth. As does the next owner.

What has that do with [i]"the will of the forum"[/i], whatever that means!

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1360541366' post='1972200']
What has that do with [i]"the will of the forum"[/i], whatever that means!
[/quote]

It seems to be an arbitrary construct that roughly means "you must consider the needs of basschat users before you consider the needs of your own family".

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1360541347' post='1972198']Translation: you don't have a logical counter-argument[/quote]

The premise that you started your post with was wrong; what more "counter-argument" do you need?

The OP has made his position and question clear, as did I (twice) and as did Clarky and Skank. If you can't grasp that it's your look-out, no-one elses. To quote you
He wasn't talking about Ebay, he wasn't talking about BC in general, he was talking about how is was taken if or when a BC-er bought something on BC with the sole intention of selling it on at a considerably greater price (which has now been construed as being a trader.
So, again, I'm on the side of those who say it's bad form.

[Musky]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1360541928' post='1972210']
It seems to be an arbitrary construct that roughly means "you must consider the needs of basschat users before you consider the needs of your own family".
[/quote]
I don't think 'must' comes into this really. As Clarkey and others have pointed out, there's not really a huge amount that can be done if people want to realise a profit.

However many people have gone out of their way to assist others on this forum without seeking any remuneration in return, from organising bass bashes to loaning out amps. That's the nature of the community. Personally I shall find it a little sad if all our interactions are reduced to purely financial terms.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360571991' post='1972327']
The OP has made his position and question clear, as did I (twice) and as did Clarky and Skank. If you can't grasp that it's your look-out, no-one elses. To quote you
He wasn't talking about Ebay, he wasn't talking about BC in general, he was talking about how is was taken if or when a BC-er bought something on BC with the sole intention of selling it on at a considerably greater price (which has now been construed as being a trader.
So, again, I'm on the side of those who say it's bad form.
[/quote]

You might want to read the OP again and see if its actually "clear" at all. Nothing is mentioned other than "buying basses cheaply". No comment whatsoever on the source.

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][quote]...as in selling them quickly for profit.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]This issue arose on another thread a couple of weeks ago. A fellow forumite mentioned their dismay at someone buying basses cheaply and quickly turning them around for the BC marketplace at an inflated price. A few members chirped up and said 'this is the way of life', 'good luck to them' and then a few more, (me included), were surprised by this and mentioned that, whilst in no way against the rules, flipping basses on BC was poor etiquette and had previously been frowned upon by the community.[/quote][/font][/color]

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1360572209' post='1972330']
However many people have gone out of their way to assist others on this forum without seeking any remuneration in return, from organising bass bashes to loaning out amps. That's the nature of the community. Personally I shall find it a little sad if all our interactions are reduced to purely financial terms.
[/quote]

...and thats brilliant. It really, genuinely, is. But accusing people of "bad form" and being "out to screw people for every penny" because they have chosen to sell something at its "market value" when you know nothing about their personal circumstances is just as sad a breach of community spirit as so-called "flipping" is.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1360572704' post='1972336']
You might want to read the OP again and see if its actually "clear" at all. Nothing is mentioned other than "buying basses cheaply". No comment whatsoever on the source.[/quote]

That's why the rest of us have read [i]all[/i] of the thread, and some of us queried for clarification, before jumping in with "I buy a bass on Ebay....."

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360572920' post='1972341']
That's why the rest of us have read [i]all[/i] of the thread, and some of us queried for clarification, before jumping in with "I buy a bass on Ebay....."
[/quote]

I'm afraid I don't see any difference between buying something cheap on eBay and selling it here for more than I do with buying something cheap here and selling it here for more. If anything, buying it cheap on eBay is "worse"---if it was here in the first place people are more likely to know how much you bought it for!

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1360574539' post='1972366']
I'm afraid I don't see any difference between buying something cheap on eBay and selling it here for more than I do with buying something cheap here and selling it here for more. If anything, buying it cheap on eBay is "worse"---if it was here in the first place people are more likely to know how much you bought it for!
[/quote]

I'm sure the buyer, as or when it arises, on here would be most grateful for the favour you do them in letting them see how much they could have got it for if someone intent on a profit alone hadn't jumped in first.

It's OK, you're just one of those more in the £ camp, as opposed to those more in the forum out for each other if needed thing.
That's your bag, it's OK, you're not alone.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360574862' post='1972370']
I'm sure the buyer, as or when it arises, on here would be most grateful for the favour you do them in letting them see how much they could have got it for if someone intent on a profit alone hadn't jumped in first.
[/quote]

How do you know the seller is purely out for a profit? There have been several threads recently where several forumites have mentioned struggling to make ends meet. Maybe a so-called "flipper" is someone who buys a bass and then gets an unexpected car bill the next day.

[quote]It's OK, you're just one of those more in the £ camp, as opposed to those more in the forum out for each other if needed thing.
That's your bag, it's OK, you're not alone.
[/quote]

What a load of nonsense. I've never "flipped" anything, on basschat or otherwise. And don't dare condescend to lecture me on looking out for each other when you've never met me or dealt with me in a trade. I recently held onto a bass I wanted to sell for several months---because I wanted it to go back to its original basschat owner---when I could probably have sold it to someone else for more money and quicker.

The camp that I'm in is the one that refuses to vilify people for lack of "community spirit" when I know nothing of them. If anything, isn't it a sign of a lack of community spirit to assume the worst of people purely because of the price they ask for something? Are people only welcome in "the community" if they can afford to give away gear for cheap?

Edited February 11, 2013 by uncle psychosis

[Big_Stu]

We've already established that you have difficulty reading things before jumping in with inapprpriate diatribes. Apologies if that's down to dislexia or something, but if it's just down to inability or unwillingness to interpret from what you've read (you have read the whole thread haven't you by now?) then I don't see any point in going any further with this.

The OP asked a general point about people trading in general, not one-off incidents which could have 101 reasons behind them. He's got his answer, he's happy (AFAIK) - a few BCers have nailed their colours to their mast.

No point in dragging this on well past it's sell-by date like the "asking the moderators for help" thread is.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360576097' post='1972398']
We've already established that you have difficulty reading things before jumping in with inapprpriate diatribes. Apologies if that's down to dislexia or something, but if it's just down to inability or unwillingness to interpret from what you've read (you have read the whole thread haven't you by now?) then I don't see any point in going any further with this.
[/quote]

Oh dear. Again with the personal insults.

If you'd "read the whole thread" you'd find that a few posts ago I actually said:

[i]"[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][b]For the record---buying stuff cheap from the classifieds just to sell it on is a little off, yes. [/b]But if it was here, on the classifieds, for cheap, then its already been offered to the community. People on this site know their stuff, if its selling cheap its probably because the market is really, really slow, so selling it on for more will almost certainly be very hard" [/font][/color][/i]

You chose to ignore that and instead you jump down my throat about "not looking out for each other" and accusing me of only being interested in money, when you know nothing about me.

I ask again---which of these things shows more community spirit:

1. Wanting to believe that other basschatters are fundamentally good people, regardless of how much they sell stuff for
2. Assuming that someone who buys cheap and sells for more is out to screw the rest of us without any further information to go on

?

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1360576670' post='1972418']you jump down my throat about "not looking out for each other" and accusing me of only being interested in money, when you know nothing about me.[/quote]

Just for the record I didn't accuse YOU of anything; though if by your argument in defence of it you are aligning yourself with those that are then again, that's your look-out.

And - again - and as clarified, I was talking, as I believe the OP was too, about people who make a habit of it, ie. "trade" (by the demarkation of BC). AFAIK it was rhetorical question & not accusing anyone.
And - again - a few have answered for, and a few against....... and some have gone off at tangents Ebay, car-bills, starving families, which wasn't intended since they're one-offs, not trading.