Korg MS20 Mini

[BigRedX]

Oh yes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA-owDEGpac

And it has MIDI.

[Zenitram]

I wonder if this will devalue my original 1978 one.

Also, isn't it great how all these funky, funky instruments are made by very seemingly unfunky people. Yet they carry the funkiness within.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Zenitram

[BigRedX]

I'm sure the purists will find something to criticise in the MS20 Mini regarding the sound. IMO it's all a little pointless, with the component tolerances of the time they all sounded slightly different anyway.

Last time I looked I thought that the prices being asked (c £1500) were more than a bit on the steep side. The original MS20 was a great sounding synth (and for many years in the 80s it was my main instrument), but there's also a lot wrong with it. The patch bay routing wasn't as versatile as it could have been (no cross-mod for starters) and the decision to use Hz-volt and S-trig for external control meant that using it with other synths was less than straight forward.

In the end the thing that really killed all these synths off wasn't shortcomings in sound or lack of polyphony, but the fact that getting the same sound a second time was so bloody difficult. Mine got sidelined and eventually sold simply because it was more important for me to have synths with recallable patches.

I'll certainly have a good look at the MS20 Mini when it's in the shops, but unless it allows full control of the knob positions and the patch routing over MIDI, I don't think I'll be choosing it over the VST version.

[Zenitram]

Aye, all very true. They do look great though, like the flight deck of a small aircraft. Must get mine fixed, along with all the other junk I have lying around.

[paul_5]

Korg already rereleased the MS20 as a controller keyboard when the 'Legacy Collection' plugins came out. I reckon if you love the MS20 (and why wouldn't you?) you've probably either got an original or the plugin / controller.

I Fecking LOVE the MS20 though.

Edited January 25, 2013 by paul_5

[bartelby]

I only had an MS-10, sold it when I was broke about 16 years ago.

regretted it ever since.

[Zenitram]

Although the Legacy MS-20 doesn't quite sound like the original; it sounds like a plug in. Which isn't a bad thing; anything that makes a noise can sound amazing in the context of, er, whatever it is that it's doing. Or something.

When I play with the original I'm always vaguely worried that the rumbling and trembling is going to blow my speakers and then cause the house foundations to crumble if I tweak something too far the wrong way.

Anyway yes it's all very cool.

[Zenitram]

Also, the original has the very worst keyboard I have ever encountered.

[BigRedX]

When a friend sent me the link to the YouTube video I posted this morning, I was originally all fired up about this synth.

However, the more I think about it, the more I remember exactly why I sold my original MS20 and all my other old synths. Live, they were a complete nightmare to use - I remember too many occasions where I would be frantically repatching the MS20 as the intro for the next song started, only to be presented with either no sound, or some horrible out of tune noise when I played the first note because one control or patch lead was incorrectly set.

In the studio they were little better. Prior to MIDI everything was interconnected with a multitude of special leads and interface boxes - some very expensively bought, others cobbled together from articles in E&MM magazine - and although it allowed us to do some fantastic things, my Nord Lead does nearly all of them effortlessly and with complete reliability every time.

Edited January 25, 2013 by BigRedX

[Beer of the Bass]

It looks appealing, but I'm kind of surprised they've gone for a full-on MS20 recreation rather than taking the approach of the newer Moogs, i.e making a more modern instrument but with an analogue signal path and some key features of the old ones. Mini keys are going to put off a few players too. The price puts it in close competition with things like the Moog Minitaur and the Arturia Minibrute, which could be a tough choice. Having said that, I used to love playing around with my mate's knackered MS10 and the Korg filter has its own flavour, plus the signal processing could be a lot of fun on this one.

[Spike Vincent]

Nostalgia is big business,but I think I'll be sticking with my MS 10.

[VTypeV4]

I truly love my real MS20 and the comment about them all sounding different is very true. My friend has an earlier (I think at least) serial number model and his is a bit more 'fizzy' and 'snarly' whereas mine is an altogether smoother sounding example.

The new mini one looks a really cool little weapon tho..

[mcgraham]

After watching a lot of Sub Phatty and MS20 mini videos, I think I'd rather go with the MS20 mini. My reasons?

1) I already have a Minitaur and for Moog punch and heft, it doesn't get much bigger than that = box ticked
2) I have 2 monotrons (normal and duo) and the filters are truly excellent. Very different to the Moog ladder filter, far more creamy and screamy, which I have a use for = different sound
3) THe MS20 is a far more analog spirited and executed synth than the Sub Phatty. With some really interesting sound mangling architecture and onboard patch bay, all controls on top deck, and no presets or hidden features = WYSIWYG ... which while BRX has indicated this makes sound switching a pain, to me it's what analog synths are all about (the no presets all on top deck, not the pain in the arse part).

That said, the Sub Phatty looks visually better than the MS20... although both of them look somewhat hideous.

[Zenitram]

I tell you what, the Prophet 12 looks nice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab_Ox7NXDkk&list=UUn2UECRN6iyU_Jcyb6A-1ZQ&index=1

[mcgraham]

Digital oscillators sadly. I understand it's because there's 5 voices per oscillator (so 60 voices total), and all the cross-mod options means it wasn't possible to do everything they wanted to do if they stuck with analog oscillators. The rest of the filtering and related things are all analog though.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='mcgraham' timestamp='1359620639' post='1957535']
After watching a lot of Sub Phatty and MS20 mini videos, I think I'd rather go with the MS20 mini. My reasons?

1) I already have a Minitaur and for Moog punch and heft, it doesn't get much bigger than that = box ticked
2) I have 2 monotrons (normal and duo) and the filters are truly excellent. Very different to the Moog ladder filter, far more creamy and screamy, which I have a use for = different sound
3) THe MS20 is a far more analog spirited and executed synth than the Sub Phatty. With some really interesting sound mangling architecture and onboard patch bay, all controls on top deck, and no presets or hidden features = WYSIWYG ... which while BRX has indicated this makes sound switching a pain, to me it's what analog synths are all about (the no presets all on top deck, not the pain in the arse part).

That said, the Sub Phatty looks visually better than the MS20... although both of them look somewhat hideous.
[/quote]

The patch bay on the Korg MS20 it both it's greatest strength and also its weakness. It initially allows loads of new sound making opportunities, but as you get more familiar with it you'll come to hate it's limitations.

Firstly there is no access to the signal path other than an external input to the filter which rules out any FM sounds like cross-mod and using an oscillator to modulate the filter cut-off.

Secondly some of the more basic routings aren't available without using patch leads - the performance controls, pink noise, inverted envelopes, sample and hold, most of which are a switch selection away on a Roland synth from the same era, require in some cases fairly complex patch lead configurations.

Add in the inability to sync the oscillators and the lack of modulation routing (even by the patch pay) to each oscillator individually means that sounds which something like a Roland SH2 could do with ease are convoluted to set up and in many cases simply not possible.

Of course the big plus point is the two filters which allow a lot of sound-shaping flexibility and allow some neat resonant filter effects using the HP filter that synths with only a single LP (or switchable) filter can't get close to.

Also team it up with a Korg MS50 fully modular expander and you start to get the flexibility that the MS20 promises but doesn't quite deliver. Of course then you quickly find yourself running out of voltage and signal mixers, but then you're really into the realms of fully modular synthesisers where you can add individual modules as your sonic needs and budget require/allow.

For me most of the things I wanted to do with modular synths were far easier to do once MIDI allowed you to access the individual knobs using continuous controllers, and unless you need to do things like use audio signals as controllers, a well-spec'd MIDI synth will win every time in modulation possibilities.

[mcgraham]

I hear what you're saying, and you clearly have more experience with the idiosyncrasies of the MS20 architecture than I do.

That said, one of the more philosophical points I've come to grasp over the last few years is how idiosyncrasies and limitations (for better or for worse) make something into an instrument with its own character. There are some elements of the Minitaur that are somewhat peculiar in its architecture and how certain things are setup, but it makes you approach it in a way that is entirely unique to the Minitaur. Similarly, what you find annoying about the MS20 I might also find irksome, but I'm also willing to accept quirks for the sake of having an instrument that inspires me.

[BigRedX]

If you buy one let us know how you get on with it.

I have a feeling it will go one of two ways. Either you'll become frustrated with it because stuff that is easy to do on your other synths requires too much patch lead plugging. Or alternatively you'll start looking for a fully modular system.

Back in the days before MIDI (and after, before synths started to take full advantage of the possibilities it offered) The main advantage of the MS20 over other similar spec'd and priced synths was the fact that there were far more possibilities for patching them with other equipment. On their own they didn't offer much more than any other 2 oscillator mono-synth. It was when you started to connect them up with other synths and drum machines of the time that the patch-bay really showed it's value.

It will be interesting to see how this new incarnation fares in relative (patch) isolation.

[VTypeV4]

Did anyone buy the new one?

I had a quick play with one yesterday and to be fair, it was very good. I'm not so sure about the funny sized keys or the 1/8" patchbay but the sound was excellent, right on the money! Oscillators and filters reacted in a very similar way to my MS-20 although the controls for them seem a little less sensitive than my original item making them sort of better and worse at the same time. It'd very interesting to run them side by side.

As for my original, I'm undetaking a new project where it may become my main instrument again which would be pretty cool if it comes off. I've spent many hours on mine this week using the laptop as an FX unit. It's been wicked!