Off-key songs

[Slatfatf]

Stuff by AC/DC, Highway to Hell springs to mind..

[HMX]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1358638461' post='1942791']
[color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]The connection of Stonehenge to the 25,920 year orbital procession of the equinox and the number 432 is obvious.[/size][/font][/color]

Hippy, pseudo scientific, twiddle twaddle!
[/quote]

I can't trust anything with a gif of a heart with legs, body and a key.

Edited January 20, 2013 by HMX

[discreet]

[quote name='HMX' timestamp='1358643864' post='1942862']
I can't trust anything with a gif of a heart with legs, body and a key.[/quote]

But it [i]is[/i] wearing gloves and boots - so I'm convinced.

[casapete]

Slightly OT, but with two guitarists in a band quite good results can be had to have them tune ever so slightly out with
each other - makes for a great 'jangly' thing. (Can get iffy when you add a keyboard player into the mix though!)

[BILL POSTERS]

[quote name='casapete' timestamp='1358679202' post='1943081']
Slightly OT, but with two guitarists in a band quite good results can be had to have them tune ever so slightly out with
each other - makes for a great 'jangly' thing. (Can get iffy when you add a keyboard player into the mix though!)
[/quote]

Wasnt that an old old country and western trick from donkeys years ago to get the lead player heard over the rest ?

[stingrayPete1977]

I thought this was going to be a Florence and the machine thread but the op meant consistently off pitch end to end not just the chorus, as you were

Edited January 20, 2013 by stingrayPete1977

[xgsjx]

I think some folk are getting mixed up between a drop tuning & tuning to A 440.
Songs with the tuning to Eb is usually done for the singers abilities. Tuned to a standard tuning of A440 would mean you just drop a semitone.
A lot of Stevie Wonder songs are in a flat key as it suits horn sections better.
If an instrument is tuned to A 432, when you play the same note on another instrument tuned A 440 then it would sound like it does when you're tuning 2 strings & one is slightly down in pitch from the other.

A lot of older recordings the pitch is due to someone wanting to change the tempo of the song.

[mcnach]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1358633257' post='1942702']
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]This question was asked during an interview with the producer Tony Platt which I thought may be interesting:[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=2][b]What piece of technology do you think has been the most detrimental in the evolution of the recording realm?[/b][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=2]'It would be the digital guitar tuner. When I first started, there were no guitar tuners, guitarists would tune to the piano, as the piano was always in tune in the studio. And so the guitar players always had the capacity to hold a guitar in tune. If they heard a string going out, they’d pull it a little bit to bring it back in. So things weren’t absolutely perfectly in tune but there wasn’t this focus of attention on the tuning so much. People were focusing on getting the feel right and getting it to where it was exciting. Now what happens is one string goes out of tune, everything stops, guitarist plugs into his tuner, tunes his guitar and then starts off again, but it has broken the momentum of the session so much. And again what happens is we have this overabundance of guitar players who have this overriding reliance on this piece of technology. They’re not thinking of tuning in their head, they’re not hearing the tuning in there, they’re looking at it, on the scale on the tuner.'[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]...I hadn't considered the effect a digital tuner may have on the momentum of a recording session. [/font][/color]
[/quote]


I am not a famous producer, but I think the above is bollocks.

People today still have ears. We use tuners. They make life easier, so why not? But you still have the ability to adjust on the fly! It comes with experience, with practice.
I have listened to a lot of old records where guitars were out of tune, ugh (listened to the Rolling Stones much?). I see many bands still playing live out of tune... No excuse for either, back then or today. But especially today.

Recording momentum? If your guitar goes out of tune while you play a song... then ditch it, it's clearly a tool not fit for purpose. Fix it. Do something.
I don't believe in that "magical take", I guess. If you can play something, you can play it again and again. Sure, some takes may be a bit nicer than others, because of the way we don't exactly play the same thing twice... but it's hardly a make or break issue. An instrument (or several) out of tune is a make or break issue for me.

You still need ears. If you play guitar,, some chords work a bit better if you alter ever so slightly the tuning of one or two of your strings... so you would deviate from what the tuner says, but you would know exactly by how much, from practice.

The ability to tune in a noisy environment without anybody hearing your adjustments... that's something very nice too.

Big fan of the electric tuner here, and of the modern computer, central heating in house, indoor plumbing and internal combustion engine

[mcnach]

[quote name='DaveFry' timestamp='1358637753' post='1942779']
Some New Agers claim that tuning to A = 432 Hz is better for us than 440 Hz
Of course they have dug up all sorts of ancient evidence to support their claim .
There is loads about it on the 'net if you search for 432 hz tuning .

Stuff like this ;
[url="http://www.omega432.com/music.html"]http://www.omega432.com/music.html[/url]
and
[url="http://www.carnaval.com/music432/"]http://www.carnaval.com/music432/[/url]



- Can't find a " shrugs shoulders " emotcion -
[/quote]

some people also claim drinking urine is good for you and they find many arguments for that, on the net.

I think that's just taking the piss.

[mentalextra]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1358684829' post='1943194']
I thought this was going to be a Florence and the machine thread but the op meant consistently off pitch end to end not just the chorus, as you were
[/quote]

She totaly murdered "you got the love"; and I mean murdered in a bad way. That awful vocal part of hers towards the end always makes me turn off the radio!

[paul_5]

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1358690284' post='1943361']
She totaly murdered "you got the love"; and I mean murdered in a bad way. That awful vocal part of hers towards the end always makes me turn off the radio!
[/quote]
Is there a good way to murder something?

[mart]

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1358691786' post='1943392']
Is there a good way to murder something?
[/quote]
Apparently so, if you read the thread about cooking lobsters.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1358690284' post='1943361']
She totaly murdered "you got the love"; and I mean murdered in a bad way. That awful vocal part of hers towards the end always makes me turn off the radio!
[/quote]
It is one of those where I can hear it just thinking about it especially the bit where she sounds like a siren (out of tune siren) awful just awful, "but she is amazing", no she is not!

[discreet]

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1358691786' post='1943392']
Is there a good way to murder something?[/quote]

Yes - you could murder George Osborne.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1358700538' post='1943590']
Yes - you could murder George Osborne.
[/quote]
That would be euthanasia not murder.

[Blademan_98]

I have four electronic tuners.

None of them agree with each other and only one agrees with my ears!

They are good in a band situation for silent tuning at a gig. But everyone should tune to the same tuner!

As for A=440, as opposed to A=432, I think it's all nonsense

[mcnach]

[quote name='Blademan_98' timestamp='1358702531' post='1943645']
I have four electronic tuners.

None of them agree with each other and only one agrees with my ears!
[/quote]

how odd.

are they calibrated to the same frequency?

I had a tuner once, can't recall which, a Korg, and it just did not tune right... until I realised that somehow I had it calibrated A=441... all it needed was a couple of taps of a tiny button on the back (one to engage calibration, another to go up to 441... two would have meant 442...)
It happened by accident and I was very frustrated by it for a while as I was not tuned right when using it... other than that, every tuner has worked alright for me. Some are more sensitive, some take a while to get a stable reading, but they all worked for me, and my ears are not exactly covered by cloth, before someone suggests that

[Blademan_98]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1358704807' post='1943694']
how odd.

are they calibrated to the same frequency?

I had a tuner once, can't recall which, a Korg, and it just did not tune right... until I realised that somehow I had it calibrated A=441... all it needed was a couple of taps of a tiny button on the back (one to engage calibration, another to go up to 441... two would have meant 442...)
It happened by accident and I was very frustrated by it for a while as I was not tuned right when using it... other than that, every tuner has worked alright for me. Some are more sensitive, some take a while to get a stable reading, but they all worked for me, and my ears are not exactly covered by cloth, before someone suggests that
[/quote]
I just got them out and checked as it could have been that

They all report A=440 (Apart from the one built into my Orange practice amp as that has no other option).

They are all slightly different. Two of them are Korg units and one is a cheapy I got from eBay (the forth being the one in the amp).

[mcnach]

[quote name='Blademan_98' timestamp='1358709558' post='1943838']
I just got them out and checked as it could have been that

They all report A=440 (Apart from the one built into my Orange practice amp as that has no other option).

They are all slightly different. Two of them are Korg units and one is a cheapy I got from eBay (the forth being the one in the amp).
[/quote]

INteresting.

I would have thought they are all accurate enough, otherwise we'd be hearing mayhem from half of the bands we see live.

Oh, wait!!!

[stingrayPete1977]

My clip on tuner is a little bit out, Polytune ftw

[oggiesnr]

Stolen from Dick Gaughan who maintains that if you want to see perpetual motion give a guitarist a guitar and let them tune it until they are satisfied that it is in tune, then pass it to a second guitarist who will check the tuning and retune it until it's in tune to them. Then pass it back to the first guitarist who will immediately retune it etc etc.

In day gone by one of the sights of the folk scene was Martin Carthy obsessively tuning his guitar between songs, sometimes it took longer than the songs!

Steve

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1358684829' post='1943194']
I thought this was going to be a Florence and the machine thread but the op meant consistently off pitch end to end not just the chorus, as you were
[/quote]

He-he!

Just to clarify, I DID mean off- key from start to finish.
A couple more examples:

Dear God - Xtc
Somebody I used to know - Gotye.
Compare that to the Walk off the Earth cover. That's in A=440. The original isn't, and sounds better for it. To my ears, at least.

[arthurhenry]

A slightly well known guitarist with whom I worked for a while, was often not tuned to A440, as he didn't use a tuner, or a reference note. At rehearsals, he would suggest that I should tune to him, since it would be quicker to tune four strings than six!

[Hobbayne]

The Beatles - When I,m 64 is speeded up on the mono version by a semitone for some reason. but in the original key for the stereo

Edited January 20, 2013 by Hobbayne

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1358722864' post='1944206']
The Beatles - When I,m 64 is speeded up on the mono version by a semitone for some reason. but in the original key for the stereo
[/quote]

If that's really the case then the mono version will be what the Beatles intended as these were the mixes that they spent the time on. The stereo version of the album was polished off in half a day at the end of the session.