Intervals !

[ML94]

Hey Guys,,

I might have asked this before, if so please ignore.

What my question/aim is that I would like to get more out of my ears. In other words when I work things out by ear I don't want to use too much 'guess work' and actually rely on hearing the different intervals and so on. I've had a look online and there are different methods but 2 stand out

1 - listen to the intervals again and again and again and again .....
2 - Assign a song which has that specific interval and try singing it so it stays? in your memory

Out of these 2 which one would be most beneficial ? Listening to the intervals again and again does sound quite daunting but if you guys have tried it and have much better interval recognition then I actually don't mind putting in the hours of practice.


ThanksGuys !

Please share anything that would be useful

[Musky]

I'm not sure that I've deliberately tried either method, but going for number 2 would make more sense to me. The first should come with practice and time anyway.

Also learn your scales, as it makes learning songs much easier.

[SteveO]

I find I can pretty accurately identify intervals, although I never really set out to learn them. For me I guess I used method 1 in that after years and years of playing various instruments I can hear an interval and imagine playing it, and then "seeing" in my head the shape and then working out what interval it is. (Actually I find it easiest do this by imagining playing the notes on trumpet probably because you pretty much need to be able to 'hear' the note that you are aiming at before you play it, and its not so hard to do this process in reverse.)

To approach it in this way means that I'm not restricted to intervals, but can hear can hear quite complex chords and work out quickly what is going on, even over several instruments. I think method 2 (which I have never tried btw ) would be useful in the short term at being able to identify intervals, useful for a music examination situation for example, but possibly less useful in a performance setting as there appears to be an extra step in the working out process. i.e "sounds like Happy Birthday - major 2nd - Was playing a C - so new note is D" rather than "Was C, now D so major 2nd"

Saying that, method 2 looks like it is easier to learn, and less prone to guess work, and if starting out from scratch I would do both. 1 for performance and 2 for transcribing.

[thisnameistaken]

I don't think the idea of remembering songs where the melody features a specific interval is particularly useful. Where is that knowledge going to be used? If you don't recognise a particular interval are you going to hum each of those tunes in your head until you find the right one?

I don't know that listening alone would be useful either.

I think the key is to think in terms of intervals all the time. So if you play a Bb over a G minor you know you're playing a minor 3rd, the same as if you played a G over E minor, a C over A minor, etc. As an exercise to try to internalise what the different intervals sound like, I would recommend learning bass parts from records using your ears rather than tab. This may seem like hopeless trial-and-error at first but that's the whole point - it's a key skill you need to practise to get your ears to hear the intervals and help you find them on your instrument.

Start with the most common chord tones - both thirds, dominant fifth, dominant seventh, octave. You don't have to memorise all of them at once (or even at all!) but learning those important ones (and you'll find they are easy to recognise because they are so common) will make finding all the others much easier.

Have fun.

[argm]

I certainly disagree - finding songs to find the intervals and learn them is a great way to start off!
e.g. first two notes of the star wars theme is a 5th.
But also just humming a major scale from the tonic to whatever note and then working it out like that is also very helpful.
In the end it is practice and it will one day just click.

[OliverBlackman]

In terms of being useful for transcribing, learning what the different scales sound like really helped me. Check out Janek Gwizdala's new video's on it, there is some great info there.

[moonbass]

Major 6th = my bonny lies over the ocean

[JTUK]

You just play them over and over until they stick.
You should at least get to hearing a 2 tone shift and a flatened 5th

[Guest bassman7755]

You need to cover both recognition and recall, they are seperate but complimentary skills. I am personally firmly on the side of NOT using well known tunes to help with either, you should aim for instant intuitive recognition and not have to revert to comparing imagined tunes.

This is what Bruce Arnold has (whose courses I reate very highly) has to say ...

[quote]Since the only way ear training will be useful in a real musical situation is for you to have instant access to it, you have to develop speed. Therefore you just want to listen and guess the first thing that comes into your head. You should not “think” about the correct answer, just react. Eventually you will find your accuracy is improving. Remember you want to use this ear training in “real time.” That means you can’t be devising schemes in your head or counting intervals to get the correct answer. There’s no time for that when you are on the bandstand or playing with other musicians; you just have to know.[/quote]

I recommend Bruce Arnolds ear training series: start with "One Note Series" and "Fanatics Guild to Sight Singing".
http://brucearnold.com/blog/ear-training-guided-tour/

I also would recommend doing level 1 of David Burges "Relative pitch" course which is a more traditional approach. I think level one is the most valuable covering the main intervals, major & minor chord sounds etc. In order to buy level one seperately you might have to get it via amaxon marketplace in the US http://www.amazon.com/The-Relative-Pitch-Training-SuperCourse/dp/0942542312/ref=pd_cp_b_2

[SteveK]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1356519522' post='1910638']
You just play them over and over until they stick.
[/quote]
The disadvantage of '[i]You just play them over and over until they stick.[/i]' is that an instrument is required.

The beauty of using a known tune with a particular interval is that it can be practised anywhere; in the car, shopping, in the shower, sunning yourself on holiday, It can be used every waking minute of every day. I would certainly recommend it to all those that find counting sheep at bedtime a rather tiresome exercise.

[quote name='ML94' timestamp='1356513667' post='1910581']
1 - listen to the intervals again and again and again and again .....
2 - Assign a song which has that specific interval and try singing it so it stays? in your memory
[/quote]

Repetition is really the only way, but by Utilizing the OPs second method the OPs first method is made far easier.

[DaveFry]

Try leaving [url="http://www.eartrainingradio.com/index.php"]http://www.eartraini...o.com/index.php[/url] on in the background for 15mins a day !

[woodster]

[quote name='moonbass' timestamp='1356516603' post='1910602']
Major 6th = my bonny lies over the ocean
[/quote]

4th = london's burning
5th = Star Wars

[JTUK]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1356524149' post='1910711']
The disadvantage of '[i]You just play them over and over until they stick.[/i]' is that an instrument is required.

[/quote]

The main reason you will want to know them, IMO, is to busk the tune so I don't see
that as a disadvantage at all.

If you know the tune, you chart the intervals in your head and you've nailed it.

[Horizontalste]

Dare I say there is an app available on android.
Can't remember what its called but all you need is earphones and your mobile. Then everyday when you go for a $hit. Job done.

[Doddy]

Personally, i'd suggest basic repetition exercises. Start with arpeggios so that you can familiarise yourself with thirds, fifths and sevenths, then move
on to the other scale tones and finally chromatics.
The problem with songs, for me, is that once you realise that a 5th is ' Star Wars', then what? What if it's a 5th lower? It's easier to simply recognise
the intervals than to apply a song to each one. If you can, sit at a piano or keyboard,hold a root note and play the various intervals against it.Its easier
and clearer to hear than doing it on the bass.

[SteveK]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1356552173' post='1911145']
Personally, i'd suggest basic repetition exercises. Start with arpeggios so that you can familiarise yourself with thirds, fifths and sevenths, then move
on to the other scale tones and finally chromatics.
The problem with songs, for me, is that once you realise that a 5th is ' Star Wars', then what? [b](1.)What if it's a 5th lower?[/b] It's easier to simply recognise
the intervals than to apply a song to each one. If you can,[b] (2.)sit at a piano or keyboard,hold a root note and play the various intervals against it.Its easier
and clearer to hear than doing it on the bass.[/b]
[/quote]
(1.) Errr... The Flintstones (?)


(2.) Again, an instrument is required (difficult to get a piano in the car ) Of course, [i]there's no substitute to sitting down with your instrument and practising in a proper fashion[/i]. But the fact is, without an instrument to hand a beginner cant be sure that what he is humming is a P4 or P5 or any other interval. Having a related tune to reference leaves no doubt and [i]will[/i] [i]aid [/i]interval recognition.

[Chris2112]

The ability to recognise intervals is one of those things the develops as you develop as a musician. It comes with your ear, as you learn a familiarity to the notes you play and the notes you hear. If you want to learn intervals instead of just letting them develop, there is nothing really like repetition. That will get your hands familiar with the shapes, as well as your ears. The problem with humming a song that uses a particular interval is that, even if you can hum it perfectly in your head, you may struggle to either produce that interval from your hands, or indeed, apply it elsewhere, which needs your head...

[JTUK]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1356552173' post='1911145']
Personally, i'd suggest basic repetition exercises. Start with arpeggios so that you can familiarise yourself with thirds, fifths and sevenths, then move
on to the other scale tones and finally chromatics.
The problem with songs, for me, is that once you realise that a 5th is ' Star Wars', then what? What if it's a 5th lower? It's easier to simply recognise
the intervals than to apply a song to each one. If you can, sit at a piano or keyboard,hold a root note and play the various intervals against it.Its easier
and clearer to hear than doing it on the bass.
[/quote]

Best education was playing with a proper jazzer who really knew his way around the keyboard and some of the chords and progressions he came up with
really kept you on your toes...
The places you can get to from a standard 12 bar..??
To this day I'll never just play them with 3 chords.

I do think you need to hear intervals if you are going to be any sort of busker..
I'd worry if someone couldn't hear 4th and 5ths at a pretty early stage..

[steve-bbb]

just listening alone wont usually do it

you need to listen [b]and [/b]play

and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and ..............

[ML94]

Thanks guys, it's becoming clear what I need to do.

Time to get in the shed !

[urb]

OK this is super obvious but if I'm tuning by ear when I change my strings - meaning the whole bass is out of tune - I can usually approximate the pitch of the G string to within a semi-tone or two - but one useful "song interval" is "Here Comes The Bride" - the first two notes of which are a perfect 4th - which is exactly how the bass is tuned - so get one string in tune and follow that as your guide to get the others. I obviously use a tuner (as I don't have perfect pitch - some folks do) and I always use the harmonics on the 5/7th frets to tune the strings - the 'Here Comes The Bride' thing is just for rough r tuning from scratch...

Just a little something I thought might be worth adding - the Simpsons theme tune has a very pronounced raised 4th or sharp 11th in it (based around a Lydian scale/mode) - giving it that unresolved sound - just another example of a strong sounding interval that's easy to spot... for some.

Hope that helps

Edited December 27, 2012 by urb

[musophilr]

Perfect Interval = when the bandleader buys the drinks

[hollywoodrox]

I got an iOS app called relative pitch lite. It's free it can be upgraded to full for 4.99. It's very good

[Earbrass]

[quote name='moonbass' timestamp='1356516603' post='1910602']
Major 6th = my bonny lies over the ocean
[/quote]

or The Holly and the Ivy
Perfect 4th = Away in a Manger

[steve-bbb]

i love an interval me - i usually nip off for a drink and some nibbles before the second half of the set