FLoydElgar Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 How important do you feel it is? {right hand technique if you are lefty... I accomodate for all ;-) } For all - opinions welcomed and even disagreements... Its a discussion... Possibly a question to ask one's self... My view For me it is highly important that my muscle memory is as accurate as it can be... Reason for this... i.e If I'm playing a piece of music I don't want to be worrying about any complex passages and intonation issues I just want to focus on the music and go into a familiar realm where I perform... As you know there's already enough pressure put on a performer just performing... But, some have and may disagree... That its an art and art should be expressed how you feel at that given time etc... Aa demonstration of someone who follows these guidelines to a much superiority than myself. My favorite soloist and educator... Duncan Mctier. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRqYluR5Aa0 Floyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Stunningly beautiful playing, and yes a very cogent argument for letting nothing, but nothing, get in the way of the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MandShef Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 For me muscle memory is really important, the reason for doing all those boring scales & studies! When I have a piece of music to learn, I split it up into sections, work out a consistent fingering, play it over & over again, slow, fast, separate bows, slurred etc because I want to instill the technical left hand stuff into muscle memory, leaving me free to concentrate on tone etc. Lovely example piece, but all that treble clef - yikes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 This is the main focus of my practice at the moment. I am seeking to develop consistency in my 'management' of my left hand position movements without compromising my intonation. It is easy enough when focusing on the issue but, if I am looking at a trascription or trying a bowing exercise, its the first thing to slip. Still, I guess that is why we call it practice. Baby steps, baby steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobmartin Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 The music is written in the key of G, but the performance is sounding in A. Any thoughts on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLoydElgar Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 A question - how do you practice your intonation? tuner? against open strings? piano? pitch fork? iphone tuner? How do you shape the hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MandShef Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I used to have a chromatic tuner, but it kept running out of batteries. I play sat next to my piano, so I can lean over and check my tuning with that when I need to. I shape my hand with even space between 1st finger, middle fingers, 4th finger. My biggest downfall is that as I play, especially if I'm tired, my left hand tends to close in on itself, making my stretch smaller, and if I'm not careful I'll find myself playing e.g. an F natural instead of an F sharp, C instead of C sharp. Really need to keep it in check ... hence the repetition practice & scales etc! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I use various methods. Playing along with recordings is an abvious one but I do use a chromatic tuner also (one that clips onto the bridge). My ear is goo after 26 years of playign fretless electric so referencing intonation with open strings is usually enough to keep me on track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggiesnr Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I use the gstring app on my android phone set on autotune. What I tend to do is reference the note at the end of a phrase, if gravity has taken over and my hand has dropped then I'll repeat that phrase as often as needed until I'm happy that it's correct. When practicing scales I'll play them through slowly first checking each note and only then go on different bowings and tempos. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Like Bilbo I can usually trust my ear and check against an open string now and then. The first bass I bought the sound was so thick and boomy it was really hard to hear my intonation, but with the new bass I bought this year it's much easier to stay in tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobmartin Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 [quote name='bobmartin' timestamp='1349879294' post='1831695'] The music is written in the key of G, but the performance is sounding in A. Any thoughts on this? [/quote] Anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevcooke Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 [quote name='bobmartin' timestamp='1349991504' post='1833403'] Anyone? [/quote] Solo tuning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLoydElgar Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 Hi bob, yes this piece is for "solo tuning" double basses... Which in this case is tuned a wholetone up - F sharp, B, E and A! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) [quote name='FLoydElgar' timestamp='1349906861' post='1832241'] A question - how do you practice your intonation? tuner? against open strings? piano? pitch fork? iphone tuner? How do you shape the hand? [/quote] As a newcomer but one of the few (only?) Rabbath disciples on here, this is especially interesting for me. i'm finding that the most important part of left hand practice is thumb placement for the pivot. If the thumb is right, intonation is easy. To that end i have little paper stickers on the edge of the fingerboard at four thumb positions. I practice not looking at them but checking every now and again. Amazing how much the thumb placement can drift without constant calibration. As i say though, once the thumb is right, intonation is rarely a problem. That has to be because the number of arm movements you have to make is so much fewer than with Simandl. Edited October 12, 2012 by fatback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philparker Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I'm also a newcomer - so it is very interesting to me as well. Having played classical guitar since the age of nine and bass guitar since the age of 15, I've got a good reach and dexterity and I'm hoping to transfer a lot of my musical skills over to double bass. I had intonation problems when I first started playing fretless (10 years ago) and although I make the occasional flaw I am comfortable with most songs on fretless without any nerves or worry about intonation when playing live. I've only practised up to position lll so far and I'm really pleased with my intonation and muscle memory - my biggest flaw is in the 1/2 position where I find my hand sliding downwards slightly and sharpening until I look and see what has happened, although my 'ear' tells me that instantly and same when I am playing. If I am a slight fraction out I can hear it and try and adjust. I've got a long way to go to get half competent and I've got a good teacher from an orchestral background, but I'm also trying to absorb as much information and advice as I can take in! PS: I love the name Nigella for a double bass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) Might have to be renamed Nigelissima Was a fretless player myself and used the thumb pivot with 'one finger per fret'. I found the transfer to upright using Rabbath was really easy, as i didn't have to learn a zillion positions and could immediately play in all keys. I think the main reason it's not more widely adopted is that the few teaching materials based on it do very poor job imo, apart from this: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54pMdTCmo8g[/media] Apologies to all for my constant ramping of the great man. I claim not to be too off topic though, as it's very relevant to the whole intonation thing. Incidentally, i now find using Rabbath on fretless bg gives me better intonation than the traditional method too. Edited October 12, 2012 by fatback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobmartin Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 [quote name='FLoydElgar' timestamp='1350025742' post='1833565'] Hi bob, yes this piece is for "solo tuning" double basses... Which in this case is tuned a wholetone up - F sharp, B, E and A! [/quote] Oh…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJ Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 [quote name='MandShef' timestamp='1349868861' post='1831468'] For me muscle memory is really important, the reason for doing all those boring scales & studies! [/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggiesnr Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I also think that "ear memory" is important. On every other instrument I play the note is a given, I press that button or fret and I know I get X. I actually don't have to listen that hard to the pitch of the note, the dynamics etc yes but not the pitch. On the DB I have to listen to the actual pitch in detail. I know that my hand has a tendancy to drop (gravity rules) so it's not just muscle memory I need it's ear memory. When I play scales and arpeggios against the tuner I'm also listening to the pitch and noting any correction I have to make so, hopefully, I'll not only gain the macro muscle memory of where my next note/shift is in relation to where I should be but also the micro muscle memory for the correction I need to make. In many respects I'm finding that developing that ear is the hardest part of learning double bass. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJ Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) [quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1350155076' post='1835318'] I also think that "ear memory" is important. In many respects I'm finding that developing that ear is the hardest part of learning double bass. Steve [/quote] That guy in the Rabbath vid above made an interesting point at about 3:19 ..."the intonation is evidence of a correct motion" What ever your discipline, if you refine your technique the intonation will be much easier. Edited October 13, 2012 by TPJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLoydElgar Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 This is some good stuff - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qEIKoOXvWM&feature=relmfu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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