steve-soar Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 [quote name='steve-soar' timestamp='1344208347' post='1761390'] I like the little rock. [/quote]Sorry, 2 bits of brick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1344206249' post='1761363'] Ewww - you just made coffee come out of my nose you git... [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Love it! I'm all for this kind of experimental stuff Reminds me of an experimental jazz/electronic night I used to go to upstairs at the Briton's Protection in Manchester, hosted by a group called '1bpm': http://www.1bpm.net/ Used to host some truly innovative and often crazy performances... some would have me in awe, others would have me in stitches. All brilliant, but certainly not everyone's cup of tea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 [quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1344207850' post='1761382'] BTW this kind of music is all [i]very[/i] readable and [i]not[/i] difficult to understand (or appreciate). [/quote] Can you elaborate on that? I'd welcome your views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonBassAlpha Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I like it. I used to go and see quite a lot of it. I even dragged my mum (well, she IS a composer) along to see John Stevens and Allan Holdsworth playing a lot more chaotic stuff than this back in about 1980 at the 100 Club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1344248507' post='1761585'] Can you elaborate on that? I'd welcome your views. [/quote] It's a fusion music. It's basically post-Schaumburg, Euro style, free-improvisation that had it's heyday in the UK in the 70s (Evan Parker with Derek Bailey Gavin Bryars, etc) but is still practised regularly at London venues. That combined with a bit of free-jazz. Thats where the chord sequence comes from. This has also been mixed with a light smattering of modern electronica (Microstoria, Oval) hence the noodling with chaos pads and the like. Free-impro and electronica have been faithful bedmates for years. After you establish the form and come armed with the chord sequence it's basically a cosmetic decision as to how you arrange the track and where you place the pockets of free impro. I think they do it quite well, although, as I said, I don't particularly like their free-impro noodles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 You can also tell a lot about where they're coming from by their choice of instruments and sounds, ie, the keyboardist is using a Fender Rhodes sound in time-honoured fashion and the bassist with his fretless Pedulla. Theyve listened to a lot of Jazz rock as well as Brit Free- impro. You can read where the music's coming from if you can spot the influences. I This sort of thing is only 'difficult' for groove -obsessed bassists and fans of the rock band, U2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamPodmore Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Sounds a little hectic for my tastes, although i must say i love the kind of 8-bit sound (Albeit with instruments not beeps) that it has. Liam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 [quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1344255174' post='1761722'] It's a fusion music. It's basically post-Schaumburg, Euro style, free-improvisation that had it's heyday in the UK in the 70s (Evan Parker with Derek Bailey Gavin Bryars, etc) but is still practised regularly at London venues. That combined with a bit of free-jazz. Thats where the chord sequence comes from. This has also been mixed with a light smattering of modern electronica (Microstoria, Oval) hence the noodling with chaos pads and the like. Free-impro and electronica have been faithful bedmates for years. After you establish the form and come armed with the chord sequence it's basically a cosmetic decision as to how you arrange the track and where you place the pockets of free impro. I think they do it quite well, although, as I said, I don't particularly like their free-impro noodles. [/quote] Wow, impressive diagnosis... don't know what it means but it sounds impressive I understood [b]LONDON[/b] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 [quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1344258845' post='1761786'] This sort of thing is only 'difficult' for groove -obsessed bassists and fans of the rock band, U2. [/quote] Ah, this explains why I had no idea what you were talking about......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 The groove obsession is certainly a barrier to the acceptance of less repetitive genres. Personally, I find 'groove playing', particularly when it is locked into one or two chords, increasingly tedious, both as a listener and as a player. If the harmony is moving, it becomes less irritating but if the rhythm and harmony are static - yeeuch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 (edited) One of this country's great overlooked talents ! most people tend to only remember Bill Nelson for Be Bop Deluxe and Red Noise but his solo catalogue since then is quite staggering [url="http://soundcloud.com/billnelson"]http://soundcloud.com/billnelson[/url] [url="http://www.billnelson.com/html/salon/index.php"]http://www.billnelso...salon/index.php [/url] free downloads at bottom of page Edited August 6, 2012 by steve-bbb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1344258845' post='1761786'] You can read where the music's coming from if you can spot the influences. [/quote] Definitely. Absolutely nothing whatsoever surprised me about that clip, I pretty much knew where it was going as surely as if they'd being playing a 12 bar. [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1344261326' post='1761837'] The groove obsession is certainly a barrier to the acceptance of less repetitive genres. Personally, I find 'groove playing', particularly when it is locked into one or two chords, increasingly tedious, both as a listener and as a player. [/quote] I agree with you totally on that. I've never understood this obsession with "groove"; it's a very american attitude IMO. Most of the music I really enjoy, and have done for years, is not groove based; it's the thing I love more than anything about the english progressive rock bands of the 70s. Americans just cannot do progressive Rock IMO; they invariably turn it into a technique-heavy bastardised form of jazz fusion and the bloody rhythm sections are always too hung up on "groove", being "in the pocket" & all those other ghastly terms. When I was gigging if I saw people dancing then I knew I was doing something wrong. Edited August 6, 2012 by RhysP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydentaku Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 [quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1344255174' post='1761722'] I don't particularly like their free-impro noodles. [/quote] Is that a very polite term for 'hitting things very quickly with palms and elbows'? Because that is what the keyboardists is doing for some of this. I am not being flippant here, I have time and respect for all kinds of music, as long as it has some skill and merit but I am not sure what value hitting a keyboard with your forearm and palms brings to the table. Unless you are auditioning for a PG Tips advert. Challenging for the most part with spurts of vapid contradiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Before we start a groove versus non-groove war here is an example of the new york style of free impro (which often contains grooves) http://youtu.be/OtKJPMw1ARI This Features the Granddaddy of the genre, Derek Bailey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janmaat Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I thought the piece was too short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Why can't you like all of it! I love groove music, i love heavy technique music, i love crazy experimental music, trad jazz, cheesy cheesy pop music, classic rock. Non groovy music, punk. I don't get why you can't like it all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1344268510' post='1761988'] Before we start a groove versus non-groove war..... [/quote] Not my intention at all; I like plenty of what would be classed as "Groove" music, it's just that some people seem to think groove is the be-all and end-all of the function of bass playing and I would beg to differ, that's all. Edited August 6, 2012 by RhysP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dincz Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I must admit I don't get it, but then the music I really enjoy - sit and listen to intently rather than hear as background music or dance to - has a powerful emotional influence on me. Hair standing on end, goose bumps and sometimes tears. What does this music do for those of you who enjoy it? Is it simply a kind of academic appreciation of the structure and technicalities, or something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mog Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I really liked parts of it, well most of it TBH. At the end of the day its subjective innit, saying why you enjoy it or not would not change the opinions of someone with an opposing view. @ Jake: That drummer had a great bassdrum tone. Any idea what the shell is? Looks like a Yamaha Studio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeBrownBass Posted August 6, 2012 Author Share Posted August 6, 2012 (edited) . Edited January 19, 2013 by JakeBrownBass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 [quote name='dincz' timestamp='1344270136' post='1762032'] I must admit I don't get it, but then the music I really enjoy - sit and listen to intently rather than hear as background music or dance to - has a powerful emotional influence on me. Hair standing on end, goose bumps and sometimes tears. What does this music do for those of you who enjoy it? Is it simply a kind of academic appreciation of the structure and technicalities, or something else? [/quote] I can't say it brings me out in goose bumps; that's not what I get from this sort of thing although I do enjoy it. For me it's partly academic - I'm interested in sound synthesis, so I like to see/hear how different sounds are made and by what 'instruments' (that term often being loosely applied!). So I guess I like the creative aspect of it; the not having to give a **** about holding down a melody or groove, or worrying about whether people are dancing. I think that sort of freedom allows people to really let their imaginative hair down. I also find it inspirational. From what is on the surface quite random noise I've often picked up little nuggets that can be used to enrich more traditional or 'musical' compositions. I work pretty much exclusively with electronic music, which is an area where new sounds are the forefront of musical progression - arguably more so than in traditional guitar-based music - so I love the weird and wonderful noises that come from experimentation. Lastly, there's a psychedelic side to all this which chimes with my inner hippy. Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydentaku Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I never questioned his skills at all, he is clearly an accomplished musician. I won't be eating any words. I just find his use of elbow and palm absurd and when I saw him do it, it lost all credibility. In my view, I don't see how it added to the piece and I think its purely for show, which ruined it for me. The drummer using the other end of his drum stick to tickle his cymbal was also frustrating. I mean, if I was watching Herbie Hancock perform a piece and half way through he wolloped the keyboard with his forehead, I would assume he was having a fit. If it wasn't for the pretense, I would have found it wholly credible. But as it is, it is far too like a Mulligan and O'Hare sketch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 [quote name='jaydentaku' timestamp='1344289131' post='1762420'] I mean, if I was watching Herbie Hancock perform a piece and half way through he wolloped the keyboard with his forehead, I would assume he was having a fit. [/quote] I'd assume he was copying Jerry Lee Lewis but couldn't get his leg up high enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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