How can they possibly be making a profit?

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1344272665' post='1762073']
Why would I buy her a guitar that costs more than any of my basses? [/quote]

Because you're a lovable old grouch and you'd play it yourself anyway.

[GarethFlatlands]

Grab 'em while they're cheap, Gisbon just got hit with a hefty fine and lost a lot of wood stocks

[url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19153588"]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19153588[/url]

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='GarethFlatlands' timestamp='1344279229' post='1762227']
Grab 'em while they're cheap, Gisbon just got hit with a hefty fine and lost a lot of wood stocks

[url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19153588"]http://www.bbc.co.uk...onment-19153588[/url]
[/quote]

If I had the cash and storage space I would

[MacDaddy]

Too late!

As they are no longer showing on the Musik Produktiv website I'm assuming they have all been sold?

Glad I got mine when I did.

[Machines]

Saw one of them close up, they look awful. Not played it but surely it's just an exercise to sell to people desperate to have a Gibson but can't afford £800+ ?

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Machines' timestamp='1344704410' post='1768204']
Saw one of them close up, they look awful. Not played it but surely it's just an exercise to sell to people desperate to have a Gibson but can't afford £800+ ?
[/quote]

You mean people like Mac, the OP, a veteran BC-er and pillar of the forum who's so happy with his new Gibbo that he's started this thread and posted pix of himself playing his cherished new baby at a gig?

A gig where the bassplayer is our very own HappyJack? A gig which was attended by other BC-ers who confessed to admiration of Mac's new Gibson and took delight in the pleasure with which he cradled the innocent little Melody Maker in his arms, a look of tender, loving solicitude on his face?

You can see where I'm going with this, can't you

[Ancient Mariner]

Quality control at this price point will likely be highly variable, so it's as likely you'll see a terrible one as a great one. Most will probably be tolerable enough to get by on the headstock name without anyone asking sharp questions.

[brensabre79]

The thing that makes a huge difference to the price of an instrument like a guitar (or bass) is the amount of human time involved in making it. Hence a completely handcrafted luthier built guitar will fetch thousands, because you're paying for the time spent by an expert to make the thing. At the other end of the price scale, it is largely built by machines, with the minimum of human contact. I was told by a reputable guitar builder last year that my Squier VM Jazz had probably had about 15 minutes total human contact in its manufacture, a fraction of which was actually QC. Hence the threaded screws, microphonic pickups and sharp edge on the scratchplate. It's exactly the same regardless of what country its built in, except in USA the hourly rate is higher so they probably get a minute or so cursory glance before being boxed and shipped. As Ancient Mariner says, its pot luck as to whether you get a good one or a bad one.

To be fair, this is exactly why Rickenbacker don't do this sort of thing, for which they get flamed for making people wait and pay a high price for their product. Over time the Gibson brand is becoming one that is associated with poor quality control etc. as it has been in the past. It used to only represent very high quality instruments, the holy grail of guitars. They left the mass production stuff to Fender. Gibsons became quite undesirable a few years ago because they were producing awful guitars. Then they re-introduced the Epiphone brand (formerly a prestige brand) to handle the lower end of the market, to rekindle the prestige of owning a Gibson. Now it seems they are back to their old ways...

[skankdelvar]

I think we've got two issues here - quality control and product development.

Gibson USA QC has been questionable for some years now, whether at the cheap end or the high end. For example, my £600 faded LPS had a control compartment where only the pot backs had been soldered. Every lug was a twist on, including caps. But a guitar mag recently reviewed a £5.5k Kossoff LP replica, with splintered wood in the control compartment and grain filler splashes on the wiring and pots.

I mean, WTF? Who in their right mind is grain filling with the electrics in situ? That's not a question of economics vs model price. It's just mad-arse slackness. Or very diligent replicating perhaps?

Funnily enough, I haven't heard many bad QC reports about MM series guitars. Maybe it's because they haven't sold very well, or because popular opinion can't get past the looks.

Following on from the QC thing, there's the question of product development. Frankly, I think Gibson's strategy is too diverse and too shallow - they're trying to do too many things and doing few of them well.

Artist guitars are generally too expensive compared to Fender, their mid-range pricing is too high, the cheap guitars tend to [i]look[/i] cheap and - IMO and NOI to any owners - Epiphone is a bit [i]too[/i] distinct from Gibson. Epi headstocks really should be the same as normal Gibbos, particularly if an inexpensive Epi is better value than an inexpensive Gibson.

Strategically, Gibson have hurtled up a blind alley and that's even before we get into price-points, QC. workforce morale and heritage vandalism. For example, their strategy of engagement with digital is too patchy, half-hearted and engineer-driven. Expensive and sometimes fugly guitars (FirebirdX, anyone) that disappear seemingly as soon as they are launched. They even sent the Firebird X out for review without a manual or a functioning support section on their website

And once Trevor Wilkinson does a deal for his bridge thingy with Fender, tuner-end self-tuning is dead anyway.

Couple of years ago, a guy I know went on a group luthier tour of the Gibson factory, organised by the bods in Gibson PR. As soon as they arrived, they were dragooned into a meeting room to be told [i]not[/i] to ask questions about 'Heritage', because Gibson was a company owned by guys who'd cut their teeth on Wall St and that optimal corporate management was (is) the driving force behind the operation.

If only.

[color=#ffffff].[/color]

Edited August 13, 2012 by skankdelvar

[Ancient Mariner]

For a moment there I though you were going to talk about Heritage Guitars produced in the old Kalamazoo factory, but hand.

[3below]

Heritage guitars are very nice, my 575 is a wonderous thing to play, unlike my playing lol.

Edited August 13, 2012 by 3below

[noelk27]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1344875227' post='1770498']Gibson USA QC has been questionable for some years now[/quote]
One of the issues here, though, is that the OP's Melody Maker Series guitar isn't "Made in USA", but fabricated in Asia, thereafter finished and set up in the USA. Alongside it's issues with the US Department of Justice and the Fish and Wildlife Service, for its violations of the Lacey Act, Gibson is also being investigated by the US Department of Commerce and the Federal Trade Commission for its misdescription of goods as "Made in USA" when those goods do not meeting the standards of "all or virtually all" of the good being made in the United States.

[lettsguitars]

Sweat shops.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='noelk27' timestamp='1346280567' post='1787559']
One of the issues here, though, is that the OP's Melody Maker Series guitar isn't "Made in USA", but fabricated in Asia, thereafter finished and set up in the USA. Alongside it's issues with the US Department of Justice and the Fish and Wildlife Service, for its violations of the Lacey Act, Gibson is also being investigated by the US Department of Commerce and the Federal Trade Commission for its misdescription of goods as "Made in USA" when those goods do not meeting the standards of "all or virtually all" of the good being made in the United States.[/quote]

Very interesting. Couldn't find any info at all on this via Google. Got a link?

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1344709306' post='1768281']
You mean people like Mac, the OP, a veteran BC-er and pillar of the forum who's so happy with his new Gibbo that he's started this thread and posted pix of himself playing his cherished new baby at a gig?

A gig where the bassplayer is our very own HappyJack? A gig which was attended by other BC-ers who confessed to admiration of Mac's new Gibson and took delight in the pleasure with which he cradled the innocent little Melody Maker in his arms, a look of tender, loving solicitude on his face?

You can see where I'm going with this, can't you
[/quote]

I've seen some real horror stories about these guitars on other forums. Its great that the OP is really pleased with his, but one example of a good guitar is not representative of a whole range (nor is one bad guitar for that matter).

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1346492549' post='1789811']
I've seen some real horror stories about these guitars on other forums. Its great that the OP is really pleased with his, but one example of a good guitar is not representative of a whole range (nor is one bad guitar for that matter).
[/quote]

Before purchasing mine I read all the reviews I could find. I saw the ones which mentioned sharp fret edges and dodgy paint work, but no horror stories. Got any links?

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1346545188' post='1790509']
...sharp fret edges and dodgy paint work...[/quote]

By no means confined to the less-expensive Gibbos and it's been going on for years. Back in the 90's I saw a DC standard in Gloucester with a heavily orange peeled front and one of the pots at a wonky angle. Only last week I beheld a £2.5k LP Std with a squint neck pup and every saddle wound forward in a straight line, ffs.

I do laugh at the angry mob on the wider net who have cited the MM series as the final proof of Gibson's descent into the fiery pit. Most of them have never played an MM series - in fact I suspect few of them have ever played [i]any[/i] Gibson, because they wouldn't be so shocked at QC issues if they had. Internet herd mentality at its finest.

But why let the facts stand in the way of a good moan? In addition to looking 'crap'; not being made in the USA; being badly built out of toothpick shavings by child convict labour and contributing to the wholesale deforestation of the African continent, I can now confirm the following.

The MM series:

* Fiddles its expenses
* Caused the banking crisis
* Is oppressing 'little people' up and down the country
* Killed Duck Dunn with a polonium-laced 'cocktail'
* Indulges in satanic rituals involving blood-drinking and human sacrifice
* Is favoured by Illuminati everywhere as well as the Broderbond house band.

[oggiesnr]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1346547115' post='1790520']
By no means confined to the less-expensive Gibbos and it's been going on for years. Back in the 90's I saw a DC standard in Gloucester with a heavily orange peeled front and one of the pots at a wonky angle. Only last week I beheld a £2.5k LP Std with a squint neck pup and every saddle wound forward in a straight line, ffs.

I do laugh at the angry mob on the wider net who have cited the MM series as the final proof of Gibson's descent into the fiery pit. Most of them have never played an MM series - in fact I suspect few of them have ever played [i]any[/i] Gibson, because they wouldn't be so shocked at QC issues if they had. Internet herd mentality at its finest.

[/quote]

All of which is a good reason for trying instruments before you buy them which probably means from a shop rather than from a pretty pic on the web but that's a whole new can of worms

Steve

Edited September 2, 2012 by oggiesnr

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1346547115' post='1790520']


But why let the facts stand in the way of a good moan? In addition to looking 'crap'; not being made in the USA; being badly built out of toothpick shavings by child convict labour and contributing to the wholesale deforestation of the African continent, I can now confirm the following.

The MM series:

* Fiddles its expenses
* Caused the banking crisis
* Is oppressing 'little people' up and down the country
* Killed Duck Dunn with a polonium-laced 'cocktail'
* Indulges in satanic rituals involving blood-drinking and human sacrifice
* Is favoured by Illuminati everywhere as well as the Broderbond house band.
[/quote]

Agreed! I'm gonna burn mine tonight

[Beer of the Bass]

It's an odd idea that manufacturing a cheaper line in-house must be an indicator of Gibson's decline. They've been doing this since the 1930s with the Kalamazoo branded instruments and others, so it's more like business as usual.