alexclaber Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 The biggest pitfall I see with any kind of blind testing or having multiple person's opinions on one person's tone, is that you're not dealing with a hi-fi system. The bassist who is playing has control of their volume and tone by what they do with their fingers. They will naturally do what they need to do to get the tone and loudness they want where they're standing. Unless you can then take that bassist and make them simultaneously stand and listen in multiple spots around the venue then all you're getting is a bunch of different opinions as opposed to anything objective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 The bassist can also be blind testing and I know someone who's a very consistent player who may help if we ask nicely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Remember to get a non playing member of public in so they can tell everybody that they can't hear any difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essexbasscat Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 [quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1344505184' post='1765475'] The biggest pitfall I see with any kind of blind testing or having multiple person's opinions on one person's tone, is that you're not dealing with a hi-fi system. The bassist who is playing has control of their volume and tone by what they do with their fingers. They will naturally do what they need to do to get the tone and loudness they want where they're standing. Unless you can then take that bassist and make them simultaneously stand and listen in multiple spots around the venue then all you're getting is a bunch of different opinions as opposed to anything objective. [/quote] Bearing in mind issues like these, would there be an opportunity for people to bring their own rigs and test them by playing themselves through the different cabs available on the day ? (including each others). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 All you will get is what most want to hear... from their own personal perspective. and if you have a few like minded souls in the room, then you can have your own little fanfare, but it still will not amount to a hill of beans... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 [quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1344465122' post='1765162'] If you're going to try to do an actually useful and representative scientific test then you need to make it as much like a gig as possible, with all the interesting acoustics, noisy bandmates, variable audience, etc. I've thought about this stuff a lot and have yet to think of a better way to honestly test a cab for yourself than to play some gigs with it. It's nice that people want to understand what's going on and take an analytical approach to bass cab performance (it's how I ended up doing what I do) but it is incredibly complicated and to get a test scenario that produces valid and realistic results would be nigh on impossible. Anyway, who cares whether a panel of other bassists say that cab X is better according to their tests if cab Y works better for you? [/quote] Ahhh, you totally miss understand my suggestion. I don't want a demonstration of what XYZ cabs sound like, the discussion is about why a 4x10 isn't a good design. I want people to hear the effect of 'poor cab design' verses 'good cab design'. I want everyone in this discussion to hear (or not hear) for example the problems with horizontally aligned speakers and easily produced phenomena such as placing cabinets in a corner etc. All these issues get talked about but no one gets to hear it. How about front and rear porting and the issues that *could* bring. Let's stick the wrong type of speaker ina box and hear what difference it makes. Let's throw way too many subsonic frequencies in to a cabinet to see the effect it has on the instrument sound and how the problem can be relieved. I could go on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 And we wonder why us bass players get labeled as geeks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1344528340' post='1766050'] And we wonder why us bass players get labeled as geeks! [/quote] We love the details eh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 [quote name='five bellies' timestamp='1344528218' post='1766045'] And to have any value it has to be done in a band context. What sounds good on its own can sound horrible in a mix. Somebody must be in a band and have a drummer and guitarist to bring along. [/quote] Well yes and no. The issues with a 'poor cabinet design' will be apparent if there's a drummer present or not. I'm refering to those brought up in this discussion. Not whether the cabinet cuts through with two guitarists. That's not truly measureable due to the excess of variables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) [quote name='dood' timestamp='1344527683' post='1766029'] phenomena such as placing cabinets in a corner etc. [/quote] That used to be a hanging offence in "What Hi-fi" magazine. Edited August 9, 2012 by Big_Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1344505796' post='1765491'] Remember to get a non playing member of public in so they can tell everybody that they can't hear any difference. [/quote] By non playing member of the public you mean that guy in the Status Quo T shirt that is at every gig that looks for your shocked expression when he reveals that his mate's mate at work has a real Gibson Jazz bass worth £1000? (I think it would be worth more if it existed!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1344531622' post='1766123'] That used to be a hanging offence in "What Hi-fi" magazine. [/quote]I guess that would have made Paul Klipsch public enemy #1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1344560433' post='1766564'] I guess that would have made Paul Klipsch public enemy #1? [/quote] He would have been way out of their league. For a magazine that used to say only separates were true hi-fi & it was all they were interested in it's amazing when sales fall how suddenly "hi-fi" various docking stations & mobile phones can become. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShergoldSnickers Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1344531622' post='1766123'] That used to be a hanging offence in "What Hi-fi" magazine. [/quote] Just had a 'Hi-Fi Answers' flashback. Disturbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Sorry if this is too OT, but has anyone else been looking at the speakers at the Olympic Stadium in terms of dispersion? Quite a challenge. Each 'stack' hangs high, and is vertically aligned. But then the stacks are arranged horizontally around the stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 One of the problems is that we have had 50+ years to get used to the sound of poor (non-existent) cab design. The questions you need to be asking about sound are: Does it sound good when connected up to your amp with you playing your bass through it? If you are using it as the main source of bass guitar in the room (not going through the PA) does it sound consistent throughout the room (allowing for the acoustics of the room)? If you are only using it for on stage monitoring (the FoH bass guitar is provided by the PA) does it sound consistent over the whole area of the stage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 I think that bad playing and bad rooms have more of a negative influence on sound and tone than bad gear could ever have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1344682544' post='1767900'] One of the problems is that we have had 50+ years to get used to the sound of poor (non-existent) cab design. The questions you need to be asking about sound are: Does it sound good when connected up to your amp with you playing your bass through it? If you are using it as the main source of bass guitar in the room (not going through the PA) does it sound consistent throughout the room (allowing for the acoustics of the room)? If you are only using it for on stage monitoring (the FoH bass guitar is provided by the PA) does it sound consistent over the whole area of the stage? [/quote] Very well put, and the main things. I factor in 3 others as well: Can I afford it, can I lift it, does it fit in the load-space in my car. But assuming it passes those three, the above are definitely the most important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 [quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1344665310' post='1767688'] Sorry if this is too OT, but has anyone else been looking at the speakers at the Olympic Stadium in terms of dispersion? Quite a challenge. Each 'stack' hangs high, and is vertically aligned. But then the stacks are arranged horizontally around the stadium. [/quote] Far enough apart (like more than two wavelengths) and interference isn't the issue any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Dispersion theory in rubbish rooms proved. I have just come back from doing a gig on guitar with my trusty old vox 2x10, singer who was right in front of me was thoroughly deafened, while the horn section on the other side of the stage said they couldn't hear me. As you were.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 [quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1344732734' post='1768644'] Dispersion theory in rubbish rooms proved. I have just come back from doing a gig on guitar with my trusty old vox 2x10, singer who was right in front of me was thoroughly deafened, while the horn section on the other side of the stage said they couldn't hear me. As you were.... [/quote] That's a flip it on its side one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1344682544' post='1767900'] One of the problems is that we have had 50+ years to get used to the sound of poor (non-existent) cab design. The questions you need to be asking about sound are: Does it sound good when connected up to your amp with you playing your bass through it? If you are using it as the main source of bass guitar in the room (not going through the PA) does it sound consistent throughout the room (allowing for the acoustics of the room)? If you are only using it for on stage monitoring (the FoH bass guitar is provided by the PA) does it sound consistent over the whole area of the stage? [/quote] [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1344691923' post='1768052'] Very well put, and the main things. I factor in 3 others as well: Can I afford it, can I lift it, does it fit in the load-space in my car. But assuming it passes those three, the above are definitely the most important. [/quote] Y'all missed the most important one.... Does it look the biz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1344734759' post='1768664'] That's a flip it on its side one. [/quote] yeah, bit it's not very stable like that and I don't really want it falling over, I'm going for turn it down, mic it and stick it through the monitors instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquipment Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 heavy and size... however, good for melting faces Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazzer Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Happy with my Yammy 4x10 cabs, although I hardly ever use more than 1..... and FOH does all the work so the 4x10 serves as a backline monitor for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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