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Musicman20

What's the big problem with 4x10s?!

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I used a band rooms 4x10 tonight (some Ashdown model) and to be fair, despite the fact it was tatty, it sounded really punchy and the low mids had that nice push, without too much low end boom. Nice clarity, and plenty of volume.

Why does everyone seem to suddenly shun 4x10s? We may well have been 'used' to the sound after years of them being available, but if it sounds great, where is the problem?

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I have always used 410's and 210's for small gigs. I much prefer clarity and punch over boom and saturation. Plus, the power you can get from a 410 is amazing. If you get a front ported 410 that actually delivers a fair amount of low end. Oh, and if you blow a speaker you still have three more on the go without too much dip in volume.

The only downside about 410's is the weight. They can tend to be quite heavy.

Edited by shizznit

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The problem is dispersion and thus its either on axis or off axis, depending on where your ears are when you eq.

Keeping using a cab with a blown speaker is a terrible idea, the dead speaker becomes a passive radiator and messes up the tuning of the cab, meaning the other speakers are going to fail sooner rather than later, and it messes with the impedance, might short because it is broken and thus unpredictable etc.

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I`ve had various different set-ups, and configurations, but have found that a quality 410 is the best and easiest (if lightweight) option, for myself. Whilst I prefer the sounds that have been produced by the larger speaker cones that I`ve had, they don`t work as well in my bands as a 410, so the 410 gets the vote.

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Nuttin wrong wiv em bro! ;)

Back to using an EBS 410 Proline after a couple of years of 210s and 212s. Loving it. Huge fat sound, lots of grunt from a sensitive cab at 4 ohms. As Shizznit says, they're a bigger lift but for me, not a problem as it's one trip back and forth to the car on a trolley rather than two smaller cabs and two trips. Hey, each to their own, works for me.

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[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1343769380' post='1755065']
The problem is dispersion and thus its either on axis or off axis, depending on where your ears are when you eq.
[/quote]

I realise there are engineering 'no go's' when it comes to cabs, but why does the 4x10 work so well if dispersion is a problem? If you are gigging, its just a monitor usually. Giving you 'your tone' to your ears, then FOH can either take a mic to your cab and have the same tone, DI it post from your amp, or pre from your amp...so in the end it shouldn't matter.

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[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1343769897' post='1755079']
I realise there are engineering 'no go's' when it comes to cabs, but why does the 4x10 work so well if dispersion is a problem? If you are gigging, its just a monitor usually. Giving you 'your tone' to your ears, then FOH can either take a mic to your cab and have the same tone, DI it post from your amp, or pre from your amp...so in the end it shouldn't matter.
[/quote]

It doesn't work so well, that is the problem. Its a monitor that you can't hear in close proximity, which is a bad monitor, the tone that gets you your ears isn't what gets to the mic in front of it because your ears aren't at mic level.

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[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1343770045' post='1755084']
It doesn't work so well, that is the problem. Its a monitor that you can't hear in close proximity, which is a bad monitor, the tone that gets you your ears isn't what gets to the mic in front of it because your ears aren't at mic level.
[/quote]
It sounds good though...it sounds like my tone...my fingers/pick whatever.

Surely DOOM bands dont give a crap and just turn up to 10?! :P

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There are good and bad 4x10's, like any other design. One of my favourite cabinets it's the Ampeg B-410 HLF. Fills the room like very few others, less coloured than both the SVT-410 and the Ashdown ABM 410 that I owned at some point. The only reason I don't have one is the weight and form factor. Nothing wrong with a good 4x10 in my view.

Edited by eddiehoffmann

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Perhaps they have just become a bit less fashionable as the trend at the moment seems to be for smaller/lightweight cabs, and the option to use one or two cabs depending on the situation. I agree with the OP, if a 4x10 (or any speaker configuration for that matter) sounds good and its practical then why change just to be fashionable?

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I've just bought a 4X10. I would rather have had a BF 2X12, but hey, times are hard.
It sounds great, too. It's just that it weighs 80lbs, that's all. :unsure:

Edited by discreet

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[quote name='shizznit' timestamp='1343769003' post='1755057']
The only downside about 410's is the weight. They can tend to be quite heavy.
[/quote]
In a nutshell. :)

More people want lightweight cabs, so 4x10's have fallen from favour. Dispersion might be a problem but it's a problem that many are blissfully unaware of.

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[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1343770128' post='1755085']
It sounds good though...it sounds like my tone...my fingers/pick whatever.

Surely DOOM bands dont give a crap and just turn up to 10?! :P
[/quote]

Where from?

I use the poor dispersion of a 4x12 to alter the acoustic response of my instrument, I use it as a tool, so I'm pretty aware of it. I don't claim its 'my tone' because that would sound like I'm limited to a single tone. The tone is for anyone listening and they can place themselves accordingly. But if you want people to hear what you are hearing, then you need to be concerned with dispersion.

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I'm not sure if the design of 410's have a big problem. They're like 810's... an old design that still rocks. Too much hassle for me when I include stairs though. They also don't have very 'flat' performance - fine for most (in fact better) but the 3 way designs (Barefaced Big Twin, fEARful, Many PAs) are much better for some peoples needs...

I wouldn't know. I'm not an expert. But I do suspect the retention of the 810's and 410's are more due to economy and tradition than new engineering and bass cab development that shows them to be the best. Maybe the best bang per buck - perhaps not at some price ranges...

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Dispersion is only a problem if you need your backline to fill a venue if you are not going through the FOH. That happens with any type of cab no matter how powerful, how large the speakers are or how many you have.

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[quote name='shizznit' timestamp='1343774579' post='1755208']
Dispersion is only a problem if you need your backline to fill a venue if you are not going through the FOH.
[/quote]But most of us don't. By placing two tens side by side the midrange dispersion is less than that of a 1x15, or vertically aligned 2x15s. Tens naturally have the widest dispersion of the usual driver sizes, but only if kept in a vertical line. Want the tone and output of a 4x10 with wide dispersion so that the audience can hear them, and with the drivers high enough so that you can hear them? Stack two 2x10s vertically.

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[quote name='shizznit' timestamp='1343774579' post='1755208']
Dispersion is only a problem if you need your backline to fill a venue if you are not going through the FOH. That happens with any type of cab no matter how powerful, how large the speakers are or how many you have.
[/quote]

Or if they are being monitors, or are required to be heard accurately anywhere other than directly in front in both planes. And dispersion gets better with smaller speakers.

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I love 4x10s. Always have. Always will.
The one thing that trouble me with a 4x10 is picking the impedance.
I go for 8 ohms in 2x10 and 1x15, so that I can restack them to a 4 Ohms, in any combinations, to include another cab at the venue, etc...
With 4x10, I dunno if a 8 Ohms is a good idea, to leave room for another 8 Ohms cab. Or if I should go with 4 Ohms directly, since I have almost never had to add anything to a 4x10. I am conflicted, I know...

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[quote name='BassPimp66' timestamp='1343775445' post='1755225']
I love 4x10s. Always have. Always will.
The one thing that trouble me with a 4x10 is picking the impedance.
I go for 8 ohms in 2x10 and 1x15, so that I can restack them to a 4 Ohms, in any combinations, to include another cab at the venue, etc...
With 4x10, I dunno if a 8 Ohms is a good idea, to leave room for another 8 Ohms cab. Or if I should go with 4 Ohms directly, since I have almost never had to add anything to a 4x10. I am conflicted, I know...
[/quote]

If you get a choice of 8Ω or 4Ω versions of the cab you want, why would you want the 4Ω?

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[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1343776200' post='1755233']
If you get a choice of 8Ω or 4Ω versions of the cab you want, why would you want the 4Ω?[/quote]

Probably to get 'full power' from the amp.
But in reality it doesn't make as much difference one would think... for various reasons. :D

Edited by discreet

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[quote name='PlungerModerno' timestamp='1343772025' post='1755147']
I'm not sure if the design of 410's have a big problem. They're like 810's... an old design that still rocks. Too much hassle for me when I include stairs though. They also don't have very 'flat' performance - fine for most (in fact better) but the 3 way designs (Barefaced Big Twin, fEARful, Many PAs) are much better for some peoples needs...

I wouldn't know. I'm not an expert. But I do suspect the retention of the 810's and 410's are more due to economy and tradition than new engineering and bass cab development that shows them to be the best. Maybe the best bang per buck - perhaps not at some price ranges...
[/quote]

The majority of bass players don't frequent forums, and they don't want a PA cab type response for their bass cab. They want a bass cab that gives them a tone and colour they like.

Trust me, I've seen fads come and go. P basses sound like P basses through whatever you put it through.

Surely an 8x10 isn't that cheap to make?

I think the Ampeg 8x10 exists because players love the tone and it's a classic cab.

It's the same as saying 'why does a p bass exist when a Dingwall could be used'.

I like the fact choice exists, but I've heard a few players, who I respect, saying these new PA type cabs have a very very huge low end which they didn't like.

I like vinyl. It's not perfect, but music isn't supposed to be.

These are just a few views I have, sorry for the rant!

Edited by Musicman20

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[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1343776667' post='1755237']
Surely an 8x10 isn't that cheap to make?
[/quote]

Cheap to design, and to make compared to a well designed and made cab.

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[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1343776998' post='1755243']


Cheap to design, and to make compared to a well designed and made cab.
[/quote]

Once the cab is designed, that's it. Cost complete. The speakers and crossover etc might be more money but I for one would have an 8x10 or 4x12 in a heartbeat if I could transport it.

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[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1343777628' post='1755247']
Once the cab is designed, that's it. Cost complete.
[/quote]

Yeah, hence the 8x10 being much cheaper to design, because it was done by 1969.

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