Understanding intervals

[norvegicusbass]

I don't know what a note will sound like until I actually play it. Or more correctly I don't have a good understanding of intervals. I think this is holding me back from inventing my own bass lines as I can come up with quite decent lines in my head whilst listening to familiar songs ( different from the original of course ) but cant find those notes on my fretboard in real time as I try to play along. Do the top players and jazz players in particular already have a strong idea of what note will ring out wherever they are on the fretboard? I think this is a tremendous advantage in improvisation. Will it be something that will come in time and loads of practice?

[BottomE]

I remember there being a website that allows you to listen to two notes and guess the interval. Its a bit of fun. One payoff is when working out other peoples songs - hearing, for example, when the chord changes to the 4th of the scale and knowing what the chord is straight away. Saves bags of time. You can almost visualise playing the song without hitting a note.

[JakeBrownBass]

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Edited January 19, 2013 by JakeBrownBass

[norvegicusbass]

Seems like I have watched quite a few bassists especially those playing jazz that kind of sing the basslines as they play them. I watched Carol Kaye doing this and she seemed to know what she played on the fretboard would be the notes she sang even though she was doing it off the cuff. I cant in a million years do that sort of thing though I think I could sing quite an original off the cuff bassline.

[BottomE]

Nobody can do this off the cuff. Time and patience is what it needs.

[norvegicusbass]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1341315785' post='1716770']
Nobody can do this off the cuff. Time and patience is what it needs.
[/quote]
Isnt this what jazz players do though when they improvise?

[JakeBrownBass]

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Edited January 19, 2013 by JakeBrownBass

[Mr Fretbuzz]

I'm dreading the ear test on my Rockschool exams...I can't tell the difference from one note to another ....... I'm all finger numbers and fret numbers at the moment :-(. They say that minor sounds moody and major sounds happy..to me it's the other way around..I think minor sounds bright and interesting and major sounds boring :-)

I'm stuffed lol

[JakeBrownBass]

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Edited January 19, 2013 by JakeBrownBass

[Alec 'Aleb' Mills]

I found that knowing some tunes that use an interval as part of a main melody e.g. for a fifth, try the first two notes of the star wars theme!

[Chrismanbass]

[quote name='Alec 'Aleb' Mills' timestamp='1341317861' post='1716845']
I found that knowing some tunes that use an interval as part of a main melody e.g. for a fifth, try the first two notes of the star wars theme!
[/quote]

We have to do an ear training module at Tech music school and we're taught exactly that approach to associate intervals with key phrases in songs we know well the above example is a good one major 6th is the first two notes of "my bonnie lies over the ocean" and a major 2nd is the 1st and 2nd notes of happy birthday although its good to figure out your own for these as they're the songs you'll know best

a good website i used when studying for exams is [url="http://www.good-ear.com/"]http://www.good-ear.com/[/url]

[Len_derby]

[quote name='Alec 'Aleb' Mills' timestamp='1341317861' post='1716845']
I found that knowing some tunes that use an interval as part of a main melody e.g. for a fifth, try the first two notes of the star wars theme!
[/quote]

Good thread. I agree with all that's been suggested so far. The important thing is practise and persistence. Just like any other skill.

On the above quote, there's a great little book called 'How music works' by Jonathon Powell. It's a look at music from a physics/maths perspective. If that sounds dry, it isn't. I never got beyond CSE grade 1 Maths but the book gave me a lot of 'lightbulb' moments. In it there's an appendix that suggests one or more well-known songs to illustrate and recognise most intervals. For example, the first two notes of 'Somewhere over the rainbow' = an octave.

[4 Strings]

Nope, there's no short-cuts, just makes you appreciate people like those you mention all the more as, despite natural skill, it's the result of long hours of hard work.

Don't be discouraged though, the more you play and practice the things necessary to do what you want to do the better and easier it will become for you.

[TimR]

You have all the tools you need already.

Play a note on the bass then sing it. Play up a tone and sing it. Repeat this all over the fretboard, each time just with a tone difference. Pretty soon you'll have learned what the tone interval sounds like.

Repeat for semi-tones, octaves, fifths, thirds, minor thirds, minor sevenths, major sevenths, etc.

Eventually you'll be able to sing the note before you play it. Very rarely will you have to pluck a note from thin air, but if you do you'll find with experience you'll get very close, and from there you'll know how far sharp or flat you need to go to hit the note you need.

Edited July 3, 2012 by TimR

[stingrayPete1977]

This thread just makes me think of Richard Bona and the sound of my jaw hitting the floor, riddiculous!

[Fat Rich]

Interval training is one of the most important things you can do in music, it makes working out songs, improvising and working with other musicians so much easier.

Get stuck into some ear training, you'll be amazed how quickly it'll improve your playing.

[BottomE]

[quote name='norvegicusbass' timestamp='1341316049' post='1716783']
Isnt this what jazz players do though when they improvise?
[/quote]
Sorry, i didn't explain myself very well. i meant that they had to learn it at some point. Nobody is born with this information. The more time you consider it as you play the more you absorb it until its almost like changing gear - something that happens on a different level of consciousness.

[phil.i.stein]

i had a few lessons once with doctor-of-the-bass (Nick)

he told me to 'sing' along with the notes i'm playing, and do this everyday, as a pre-practise exercise.

as a test, he would turn around, whilst i played a note, anywhere on the neck, and he would then name the note.

his accuracy was about 95% !!

do i still do it ? err.. no, but obviously practise does make perfect.

[stingrayPete1977]

I know its boring but playing scales helps alot here IMO, once they are in your head you can start at a note in your head or hum then sing the scale from there, count the intervals if thats what your after and there you go, la de dar de dar la de dar, and down, bum bum bum bum bum bum bum berrrr...... those who can should be able to enjoy those

I cant do all the scales but its a start.

[stingrayPete1977]

And the Minor up, Bar rum dum pom bar um dar um ....and down......dar rum pum pom par um dar dum

[BassTractor]

[quote name='norvegicusbass' timestamp='1341314274' post='1716716']
Do the top players and jazz players in particular already have a strong idea of what note will ring out wherever they are on the fretboard?
[...]
Will it be something that will come in time and loads of practice?
[/quote]

Yes and no. In general they are good at this, but it also depends on the player.
You put this "predicting tones" in the context of improv. Many things can be said about this - for example:
- Many jazz soloists practise for years on all types of standard licks in all kinds of keys and styles, if only to have something to fall back on when getting trouble during an improv. As a listener one can often hear the sudden change from song related beauty into some weak tones and then suddenly some standard licks.
- In a lot of improv, the player would not as much decide on the next tone, or even have time to "predict" it, but would just play those series of tones or arrays of finger positions that years of practice have taught him/her will do well. The player would probably (but not always) know what's coming though.
Hm. I wonder if that is clear enough. Tell me if it doesn't come across.


You made one cool thread, bro!

[Len_derby]

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1341342221' post='1717444']
Yes and no. In general they are good at this, but it also depends on the player.
You put this "predicting tones" in the context of improv. Many things can be said about this - for example:
- Many jazz soloists practise for years on all types of standard licks in all kinds of keys and styles, if only to have something to fall back on when getting trouble during an improv. As a listener one can often hear the sudden change from song related beauty into some weak tones and then suddenly some standard licks.
- In a lot of improv, the player would not as much decide on the next tone, or even have time to "predict" it, but would just play those series of tones or arrays of finger positions that years of practice have taught him/her will do well. The player would probably (but not always) know what's coming though.
Hm. I wonder if that is clear enough. Tell me if it doesn't come across.


You made one cool thread, bro!
[/quote]

I agree with all that, and you've hit the nail on head as to why solos suddenly seem to go off the boil.

In addition, jazz players often put in a lick or phrase that's a lift from another, often very famous solo or tune. Sort of 'quoting' the masters. Sax players seem particularly prone to this.
Going a bit off-topic. Sorry!

[Mr Fretbuzz]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1341342270' post='1717446']
If you have an android phone there is a free App that plays a note then you have to work out what it is. Also does scales and chords too (although that is above me)

Might be worth it for any free time.
[/quote]

Yep I've downloaded some apps for my iPad ...... I'll be sunning myself in Spain for 2 weeks soon, no bass in hand but still learning bass on a sun lounger in my cans :-)

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1341341804' post='1717431']
I know its boring but playing scales helps alot here IMO, once they are in your head you can start at a note in your head or hum then sing the scale from there, count the intervals if thats what your after and there you go, la de dar de dar la de dar, and down, bum bum bum bum bum bum bum berrrr...... those who can should be able to enjoy those

I cant do all the scales but its a start.
[/quote]

Nothing wrong with doing it this way but it doesn't really take much longer to just learn the intervals outright.

[KingBollock]

[quote name='JakeBrownBass' timestamp='1341315149' post='1716748']
[url="http://www.musictheory.net/exercises/ear-interval"]http://www.musictheo...es/ear-interval[/url]

Standard ear training, it doesn't happen over night, As with everything, practice makes perfect.
[/quote]
I've just spent the last couple of hours playing with this. What I've been doing is let it play the note and interval and then I find it and play it on my Bass, making sure to identify the actual note. It takes away some of the interval training but it is helping me to learn more about the fretboard, what's where and how it sounds, and how it sounds in relation to other places on the fretboard. I think it makes a good exercise for a beginner or someone who has skipped this part for far too long, like me. It's also useful to know that pressing the spacebar will play the notes again, so you don't have to mess around reaching across and finding the button with your mouse, I just had the keyboard set near the edge of my desk to make repeating the notes easy.

Some of the other exercises on there are really useful too, and it's good that you can customise some of them to better suit you and your instrument. A very useful site. Thanks for posting it.

http://www.musictheory.net/exercises