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To Tube or not to Tube...


bassickman
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Ok, my best friend is a guitar freak. He always talks about how tube amps are the only way to get a quality sounding electric guitar and how solid state amps are just useless for a guitarist!

But I'm a bassist...

There are such things as tube bass amps but are they the only way you will reach quality tone to it's highest level...

???

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Sound is very subjective. Some people love the super Hi Fi sound you can get from digital amps and others love a bit of grit in their sound. I've bought and sold four amps in the last 18 months looking for the sound and portability I wanted and I think I've found it now with the Ashdown MiBass I've just bought. Two of the four amps I had were fitted with valves in the preamp and two weren't.
If you're going for a rocky sound or you're planning on playing Stranglers or Motorhead covers turning up the gain and getting a distorted sound may come in useful for you but if you're not it's probably a bit pointless. I certainly wouldn't pay extra for a valve preamp.

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NO. Ampeg and Boogie are iconic amps and sound best..to me.. if you can plug in and go...
I tend not to like the EQ stages, esp the Ampegs, but do like the full-on valve power...I just can't be arsed to carry it for one thing..or maintian it. Have you tried to lift one..?
If that was someone elses problem, then I would be condusive to either for SOME gigs.

Some people try to get round this by introducing a valve stage to the pre amp design and this can do a reasonable job.
Others use simulation from all SS and that can be variable. Thunderfunk's effort isn't too bad..but I stick with their clean tone anyway.

If you like grind, then the compromise on mantenance and carry is the hybrid, and I prefer this approach to pedals, tbh.
To service valve amps can be pretty expensive and frequent, whereas a hybrid valve pre...you might not have to touch that valve for 10 years or so,...
time may tell a story one way or another.
A good quality SS/hybrid amp should run for eons without you having to touch it... but now that Chinese and pacific rim amps are so cheap, that equation might not stack up so well..

If it were me, I'd be sourcing a U.S or U.K made amp known for quality ..like[u] early [/u]SWR's or Eden's.. or a modern Thundefunk. . plus a few others know for the QC.

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[quote name='bassickman' timestamp='1338196553' post='1670540']
....There are such things as tube bass amps but are they the only way you will reach quality tone to it's highest level....
[/quote]

From very early days bass players have been using DI’s, which completely bypass the amp and speakers, so being valveless works very well for bass.

There are no valves in PA systems and the bass that they produce is usually of a higher quality than most bass rigs.

IMO valves are overrated for bass.

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[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1338199522' post='1670596']
From very early days bass players have been using DI’s, which completely bypass the amp and speakers, so being valveless works very well for bass.

There are no valves in PA systems and the bass that they produce is usually of a higher quality than most bass rigs.

IMO valves are overrated for bass.
[/quote]

A lot of FOH engineers like to mic up the bass cab to get some dirt into that very clean tone though, in which case it's worth using a valve amp if you want that gritty sound.

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[quote name='bassickman' timestamp='1338196553' post='1670540']
Ok, my best friend is a guitar freak. He always talks about how tube amps are the only way to get a quality sounding electric guitar and how solid state amps are just useless for a guitarist!
[/quote]

Sounds like he doesn't like the sound of his guitar at all and wants distortion to cover it up. Which is standard, because electric guitars are basically horrible sounding, and the amp is a much bigger deal on the tone. But how do you feel about the sound of your bass? They do sound right without any additional colour. But the colour from valves is very good, even when 'clean', the compression an such is pretty pleasing.

But I would say get a quality valve amp, rather than an overpriced Ampeg or Mesa, because the build quality is a bit more significant with valves than SS, can't get away with so much corner cutting unless you want to be getting it serviced really often. Think a bunch of the perceived unreliability thing with valve amps is down to many well known modern brands doing all the same corner cutting that has developed in modern SS equipment, which doesn't work for valves, and the amp predating that are really old to the point where they can go wrong.

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Preamp valve do the grit thing. Power valves do the girth thing, which is in a certain sort of compression that retains dynamics, and some different sort of harmonic distortion, which sounds a bit like what you get from an Aphex Exciter with Big Bottom, and makes everything more massive sounding.

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There's a lot of people on here who don't like all valve bass amps. In my opinion they piss all over everything else out there. Try an Ampeg Classic or SVT 2 Pro and you shouldn't need anything else ever. How do I know? I sold one cos I got sick of the weight and size of it, scoured the earth trying to find something that came close, failed and bought another one. Never again!

IMO an all valve amp gives you something that all other amps try (unsuccesfully) to imitate.

Sorry to all the valve haters!

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Valves add warmth. You'll find them in microphone preamps and high end recording gear but for guitarists they introduce drive, breakup and distortion. They are also finicky things that can play-up as they get old.

With hybrid amps the single valve stops things being too clinical and hi-fi. A full on bass valve amp has lots of fuzzy goodness but can't suddenly be set to modern clean. What you'll see on alot of hybrid amps are controls that offer the vintage tone.

Either ways you are looking for an amp that makes you feel connected to your bass in a musical way. Some Ampeg SVT rigs sound a bit muffled and wooden, some solid state rigs are trebley and lack life. Best way to find out is try them.

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[quote name='bassickman' timestamp='1338196553' post='1670540']
Ok, my best friend is a guitar freak. He always talks about how tube amps are the only way to get a quality sounding electric guitar and how solid state amps are just useless for a guitarist!

But I'm a bassist...

There are such things as tube bass amps but are they the only way you will reach quality tone to it's highest level...

???
[/quote]

not sure dude, do like valve amps over here in england though ;p

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Do an A/B test with an all valve amp and a hybrid with a valve in the preamp and you'll see the massive difference. Come on guys. I know solid state amps are cheaper, lighter and cost less to mantain but please don't tell me they sound better!

Perhaps some people are trying to convince themselves.

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[quote name='BB3000S' timestamp='1338241586' post='1671602']
Preamp - yes tubes are definitely a good thing.
Power amp - not so much a necessity.
IMO, YMMV and so on.
[/quote]

Power amp valves are where all the goodness is for bass.

[quote name='cytania' timestamp='1338239760' post='1671528']
A full on bass valve amp has lots of fuzzy goodness but can't suddenly be set to modern clean.
[/quote]

Properly engineered to be so, a full valve amp can be very clean. When people could be bothered to engineer them to be so, cab's weren't so much though.

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[quote name='daveparker123' timestamp='1338242963' post='1671631']
Do an A/B test with an all valve amp and a hybrid with a valve in the preamp and you'll see the massive difference. Come on guys. I know solid state amps are cheaper, lighter and cost less to mantain but please don't tell me they sound better!
[/quote]

It depends on what sound you are after.

For me, valves are a non starter - I don't need or want that 'gritty' sound whereas you obviously do.
There is no right or wrong, just choosing the most appropriate tool to do a job.

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[quote name='daveparker123' timestamp='1338242963' post='1671631']
Do an A/B test with an all valve amp and a hybrid with a valve in the preamp and you'll see the massive difference. Come on guys. I know solid state amps are cheaper, lighter and cost less to mantain but please don't tell me they sound better!

Perhaps some people are trying to convince themselves.
[/quote]
Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself as well as the rest of us, but ok, I'll remember that, even though I've already done years of testing.

And which bass and which strings should I get so I can be like you?

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[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1338243091' post='1671634']
No.

It's an opinion as clearly stated.
[/quote]

OK, so if I write IMO or IME after everything I write, it makes it ok then? What he has written is misguided and probably based on very little experience. That's the problem with this site. People could be listening to the advice of people who have sh*t gear and think they sound good.

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[quote name='daveparker123' timestamp='1338243346' post='1671642']
OK, so if I write IMO or IME after everything I write, it makes it ok then? What he has written is misguided and probably based on very little experience. That's the problem with this site. People could be listening to the advice of people who have sh*t gear and think they sound good.
[/quote]
Or they could be listening to you shouting your mouth off, but I expect most of them aren't.

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[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1338243031' post='1671633']
Power amp valves are where all the goodness is for bass.
[/quote]
You are cordially invited over to have a test run on my Aguilar DB-680 + Lab1000 + Bergantino AE410 rig.
Maybe it sucks, but to my ears it blows my all valve Ampeg out of the water easily in terms of creamy goodness.

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[quote name='BB3000S' timestamp='1338243523' post='1671649']
You are cordially invited over to have a test run on my Aguilar DB-680 + Lab1000 + Bergantino AE410 rig.
Maybe it sucks, but to my ears it blows my all valve Ampeg out of the water easily in terms of creamy goodness.
[/quote]

I would say that would be more to do with Ampegs being seriously badly made devices. I've not been into an Aguilar amp, but I've heard good things.

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[quote name='daveparker123' timestamp='1338243346' post='1671642']
OK, so if I write IMO or IME after everything I write, it makes it ok then? What he has written is misguided and probably based on very little experience. That's the problem with this site. People could be listening to the advice of people who have sh*t gear and think they sound good.
[/quote]

And what you are writing is inflammatory, judgemental and based solely on what you think is right.
As I have previously stated, there is no right answer as one size does not fit all.

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