deals outside of ebay :/

[KiOgon]

What I don't get is if an item has a reserve set let's say £100 & if I bid £100 while the bidding is still below the reserve, my bid goes in at the next incremental bid, lets say it was at £75 so my bid shows at £80, nobody will ever know that I bid £100 unless another bid comes in at at least £95?

So at £80, if there are no higher bids, the auction ends as 'reserve not met' & the seller wouldn't find out that I had actually bid £100 - unless I sent them a message! Then the sale is likely/chance to continue 'outside of ebay' which is not in ebay's interest. So why is there no mechanism that allows the seller to see what a bidders maximum is? Or am I missing something?

Also I would never know what the reserve was, or that my bid of £100 would have been enough to win, but only if someone else had bid £95 or more

Edited May 3, 2012 by KiOgon

[Musky]

If you bid £100 on something with a £100 reserve the price automatically goes to £100 to meet that reserve.

The reason why the seller can't see the maximum bids is because that would just invite shill bidding!

[KiOgon]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1336030262' post='1639597']
If you bid £100 on something with a £100 reserve the price automatically goes to £100 to meet that reserve.

The reason why the seller can't see the maximum bids is because that would just invite shill bidding!
[/quote]

I don't think it works like that.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1336030262' post='1639597']
If you bid £100 on something with a £100 reserve the price automatically goes to £100 to meet that reserve.
[/quote]

Unless the eBay bidding mechanism has changed recently it doesn't work like that. The only way a bid can pass the reserve if the starting price is lower is for another bid to push it past the reserve price.

If the starting price is £100 and the reserve is £200. If I bid £250 eBay places my bid at £100. If the auction ends there the bids won't have reached the reserve price and the item remains unsold. If someone else bids £150 then that pushes my bid up to £155, but we still haven't reached the reserve price so no-one wins. The only way to pass the reserve price is for 2 or more people to place bids higher than the reserve.

[KiOgon]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1336033264' post='1639633']
Unless the eBay bidding mechanism has changed recently it doesn't work like that. The only way a bid can pass the reserve if the starting price is lower is for another bid to push it past the reserve price.

If the starting price is £100 and the reserve is £200. If I bid £250 eBay places my bid at £100. If the auction ends there the bids won't have reached the reserve price and the item remains unsold. If someone else bids £150 then that pushes my bid up to £155, but we still haven't reached the reserve price so no-one wins. The only way to pass the reserve price is for 2 or more people to place bids higher than the reserve.
[/quote]
That's how I see it too

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1336033264' post='1639633']
Unless the eBay bidding mechanism has changed recently it doesn't work like that. The only way a bid can pass the reserve if the starting price is lower is for another bid to push it past the reserve price.

If the starting price is £100 and the reserve is £200. If I bid £250 eBay places my bid at £100. If the auction ends there the bids won't have reached the reserve price and the item remains unsold. If someone else bids £150 then that pushes my bid up to £155, but we still haven't reached the reserve price so no-one wins. The only way to pass the reserve price is for 2 or more people to place bids higher than the reserve.
[/quote]

This.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1336030262' post='1639597']
If you bid £100 on something with a £100 reserve the price automatically goes to £100 to meet that reserve
[/quote]

Pretty sure it doesn't quite work like this, mostly the reserve is there to ensure the BIN doesn't disappear. If your max is less than the reserve it tells you that you are high bidder but reserve isn't met. If you are over the reserve it doesn't put your bid up to the reserve visibly, so your 'hand' isn't revealed, but you win at the reserve if your max is over it if there are no other bidders. I only had it happen once ages ago, and there have been bunches of revisions since. Since the fact you can set a starting price renders reserves for non-BIN auction pointless, and the BIN is a giveaway on those ones, I generally assume anyone using reserve probably doesn't understand how it all works and might be a pain to deal with, so I bid less in anticipation.

[Musky]

Ah, I stand corrected.

Like Johnston says, it used to be that if you bid over the reserve price ebay would automatically take you bid up to the level of the reserve, but things have obviously changed.

Like Johnston I don't bid on auctions with a reserve that often either.

[Rick's Fine '52]

Why wouldn't you bid on something because it has a reserve on it??

[the boy]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1336081254' post='1640772']
Ah, I stand corrected.

Like Johnston says, it used to be that if you bid over the reserve price ebay would automatically take you bid up to the level of the reserve, but things have obviously changed.

Like Johnston I don't bid on auctions with a reserve that often either.
[/quote]
I also thought this was the case. I'm surprised it's not.

[uke]

I bid my max now as early as poss, I used to love the buzz of the last "minute" bids, sadly gone now, thanks to snipe software!

[Musky]

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1336081422' post='1640774']
Why wouldn't you bid on something because it has a reserve on it??
[/quote]
I have done in the past and probably will again in the future. It's just that if I see a reserve I think "It's not going to be a bargain" and move on. Unless there's something specific I'm looking for, I'm more of a casual browser on ebay.

It's probably a psychological thing like Warwickhunt was talking about.

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1336133160' post='1641347']
Pretty much this



I will put in my watch list.

But the majority of stuff I watch that has a reserve has a stupid reserve that would be near the price of calling thomanns for a new one. Or a reserve the same as the BIN or within a few quid . (Can never work out that one) .

So I just put them in my watch list. The majority of the stuff doesn't sell first time around

Same with Items with a high start price. Like I was watching a Squier guitar the other day. Similar ones were going for around the £80 mark. This one was, well not going to be a popular colour. It's start price was higher than the vast majority of ones sold (Or highest bid on no-sellers) in the completed listings.

Now common sense would dictate that if every other similar item is going for £80 a start price of £90 isn't going to attract too many folk. So I watch it and see if it gets re-listed at a more sensible price.
[/quote]

Most of the stuff I buy is old, and rarely seen, which is different, I can't go to Thomann or similar, so if I want it, and the price is sensible, get it bought.

A reserve wouldnt put me off at all. If I bid, and the reserve is higher, then I don't get it, simple. Often the seller contacts the high bidder anyway, and a compromise deal is done.

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1336134796' post='1641385']
The only thing I would do now is if an item is going low and is collection only.
[/quote]

That must narrow your purchase options somewhat!!

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1336135625' post='1641400']
After all Public transport and ferry sort takes the chance of collection beyond the realms of reasonable purchase.
[/quote]

That's what I meant.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1336133160' post='1641347']
Or a reserve the same as the BIN or within a few quid . (Can never work out that one) .
[/quote]

It means the BIN doesn't vanish when there is a bid below the reserve. Plenty of people completely ignore BIN prices and bid anyway.

[Mr. Foxen]

Only works if you assume people are smart enough to hit buy it now instead of biding. They aren't. Plenty of people are obsessed with the auction idea. The idea of a reserve is you don't want to sell for less than it, so no loss not selling it because it didn't get to it.

[tauzero]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1336030262' post='1639597']
If you bid £100 on something with a £100 reserve the price automatically goes to £100 to meet that reserve.
[/quote]

I thought that was how it worked, but after reading the responses I did some checking and indeed the requirement is for the bidding to reach the reserve (ie. it gets there under the power of competing bids) rather than a single bid being at or above the reserve value.

[Stacker]

Whilst not part of this thread, I must admit to being a victim of shill bidding - orchestrated by a guy I knew!! Sure, I couldn't really prove it but hear this out. I sold this fella my old Steiny XL2A at one point and he disappeared off teh radar. Ten years later, he popped up on ebay to flog it. He had it starting at £400 and, natch, I stuck in something considerably above that. I also emailed him and, since I knew him, asked him what he expected to realise for it. He said £600, which I offered right away but he correctly said he'd like to let the auction run. So I sat up one night in the last few minutes, bidding against someone. In those few miuntes, the auction jumped up £50 at time, ramping up to the £100 mark in the final seconds.

I won the auction at £1500 - quiet above what I expected to pay at that time - and decided to have a look at the one ebayer who had been bidding against me. When I checked all his auctions, all his sales and purchases seemed to be of mobile phones and their accessories. I was quite convinced that the seller had colluded with someone in ramping up the price of the bass and when I met him, in person, a few days later, I jocularly asked if I was bidding against one of his mates, to which he just hummed and hawed and feigned indifference.

[Mr. Foxen]

If you bid over the reserve, it takes it right to the reserve, just done it: [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Westone-thunder-1-bass-guitar-made-japan-/150810754517?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item231d057dd5&autorefresh=true"]http://www.ebay.co.u...utorefresh=true[/url]

Edited May 6, 2012 by Mr. Foxen

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1336134375' post='1641370']
Most of the stuff I buy is old, and rarely seen, which is different, I can't go to Thomann or similar, so if I want it, and the price is sensible, get it bought.

A reserve wouldnt put me off at all. If I bid, and the reserve is higher, then I don't get it, simple. Often the seller contacts the high bidder anyway, and a compromise deal is done.
[/quote]


ebays funny, some things go for big prices as there is a bigger group of potential customers- specialist stuff like vintage fender and the like
Other things go for less as a locally rare item is not so rare.
it changes the way we buy things. I recon there is a fair difference between vintage stuff (of anything) and new second-hand

Personally if people know how much the thing is worth and don't go over, and the seller knows how much the thing is worth and oesnt go much under then both are happy. shill bids or no shill bids.

for me, I have a load of the vintage star wars figures in my parents loft that I used to collect (secondhand, I wasn't born when they first came out.) they used to have a reasonable value- now easier availability due to ebay moves the price down. I should probably sell them but not sure it's worth my effort! shill or otherwise
on the otherhand the bush 1961 bush phono gramme I picked up serviced and working from the local secondhand shop I think would probably go for more on ebay. but there you go

[KiOgon]

[color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=1]
[b]eBay have at some stage changed the way it works, just found this;[/b][/size][/font][/color][color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=1]
[b]Example[/b][/size][/font][/color][color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=1]
[list]
[*]

The current bid for an item is £10.00. Neil is the high bidder, and has placed a maximum bid of £12.00 on the item. His maximum bid is kept confidential from other members.
[*]

Loraine views the item and places a maximum bid of £15.00. Loraine becomes the high bidder.
[*]

Neil’s bid is incremented to his maximum of £12.00. Loraine's bid is now £12.50.
[*]

We send Neil an email that he has been outbid. If he doesn’t raise his maximum bid, Loraine wins the item.
[/list][/size][/font][/color]
[url=""][/url]
[b] The small print[/b]
[color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=1]
In reserve price auctions, if your maximum bid is at least the reserve price, we’ll automatically increase your bid to meet the reserve, and bidding will continue from there.[/size][/font][/color]

[Musky]

[quote name='KiOgon' timestamp='1337016777' post='1654097']

[color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=1][b]eBay have at some stage changed the way it works, just found this;[/b][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=1][b]Example[/b][/size][/font][/color][list]
[*]

The current bid for an item is £10.00. Neil is the high bidder, and has placed a maximum bid of £12.00 on the item. His maximum bid is kept confidential from other members.
[*]

Loraine views the item and places a maximum bid of £15.00. Loraine becomes the high bidder.
[*]

Neil’s bid is incremented to his maximum of £12.00. Loraine's bid is now £12.50.
[*]

We send Neil an email that he has been outbid. If he doesn’t raise his maximum bid, Loraine wins the item.
[/list]


[b] The small print[/b]

[color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=1]In reserve price auctions, if your maximum bid is at least the reserve price, we’ll automatically increase your bid to meet the reserve, and bidding will continue from there.[/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]
They must have gone back to the old way of meeting the reserve then - that's certainly the way it used to be done.

[mcnach]

I tend to bid my max as late as possible. Unless there is a "buy it now" that is higher than what i want to pay. In that case I may bid early just to remove the BIN.

[Mr. Foxen]

I just did my usual bid when I know what I want to bid and dude cancelled it.