jackotheclown Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 So I'm studying on a BA Jazz course down in London, I play bad ass walking lines on my electric bass. At the start of the course I was under quite a bit of pressure to play the Double Bass, I tried it and found it wasn't really my thing. I mean its a beautiful instrument in its own right but not for me. I also feel like that I wanna make the electric swing and play it so good that a lot of people wanna play with me. I constantly transcribe walking lines from Double bass players such as Sam Jones, Ray Brown, Ron Carter and Paul Chambers among many others, but I wanna check out what electric bass players have done with walking bass lines. I'm a massive Jaco fan like so many of us are and I have checked out his playing with Metheny when they played some standards and he just kills man! However I wanna hear some more electric players playing through good ol' standards such as There is no greater love, A Train, All the things you are, Days of wine and roses and so on. You know what I mean, I just don't know who to listen to! Please could anyone reccomend me some cats to check out. But don't just say a load of people who own at electric eg. Stanley Clarke, Christian McBride (also these guys mostly play double when it comes to walking) I would like people to reccomend me people they have heard play standards. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Jeff Berlin and Laurence Cottle are the first two guys I think of with regards to jazz players on electric bass....they both swing like crazy.There's players like Janek Gwizdala too,although he doesn't,by his own admission,really play any straight ahead jazz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackotheclown Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1331560220' post='1574752'] Jeff Berlin and Laurence Cottle are the first two guys I think of with regards to jazz players on electric bass....they both swing like crazy.There's players like Janek Gwizdala too,although he doesn't,by his own admission,really play any straight ahead jazz [/quote] Cool have you got any albums you could reccomend of Berlin and Cottle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencer.b Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Hi mate check out some steve swallow his real book album is good and it's got the charts in the liner notes. Jeff Andrews plays some great rythmn changes lines on suspone on Brecker Brothers don't try this at home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 just to be clear... you're not ruling out what upright players contribute to the genre right??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackotheclown Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1331561523' post='1574786'] just to be clear... you're not ruling out what upright players contribute to the genre right??? [/quote] No man, i love upright but I wanna hear some electric players do there thing as all I have heard are upright players in the past few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 No matter how "bass ass" you think you are the opinions of the guys giving you work will count for a lot. If you are going to play Jazz and make a living at bass playing you should be as flexible and complete a player as you can be. Playing upright bass would open doors and be a significant earner for you. Martin Drew had to drop Laurence Cottle from his band on certain gigs because he didn't play upright bass. Good luck to you, but, to be clear, this decision has restricted your opportunities as a working musician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackotheclown Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1331562110' post='1574805'] No matter how "bass ass" you think you are the opinions of the guys giving you work will count for a lot. If you are going to play Jazz and make a living at bass playing you should be as flexible and complete a player as you can be. Playing upright bass would open doors and be a significant earner for you. Martin Drew had to drop Laurence Cottle from his band on certain gigs because he didn't play upright bass. Good luck to you, but, to be clear, this decision has restricted your opportunities as a working musician. [/quote] I know man, your right, I just can't get into upright though. I'm not just looking for jazz gigs tho so I think I will be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithless Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Cottle and Berlin are the right guys, as is the Steve Swallow. As for the topic of walking basslines, you shouldnt really restrict yourself to electric bass players, even if you don't really dig double bass thing at the moment - it's the material that's important (the music), not the tools that it's made by. Other thing - only listening to great cats' records won't make you play laser-sharp walking lines- if I were you, I'd go to www.joehubbardbass.com and snap a copy of his new book about Walking Basslines. It's probably the greathest method book on this I've seen so far - I'm actually near the finish of the book, and I can tell you it makes wonders to your playing if you really spend time with it. best- L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 ok now I know you're open, check out Bob Cranshaw... he is an upright player but did some really killing EB walking in the 80s with Sonny Rollins. Also many of the american guys in Jazz that play electric can swing hard, you just need to find the stuff they are doing it on, Victor Bailey, Anthony Jackson, Will Lee, Jimmy Johnson, Kermit Driscoll, Jimmy Haslip.... all great electric players that can swing really hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Speaking as someone who loves listening to this genre I don't think that the electric bass can always substitute effectively, not to my ears anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackotheclown Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='GreeneKing' timestamp='1331564326' post='1574872'] Speaking as someone who loves listening to this genre I don't think that the electric bass can always substitute effectively, not to my ears anyway. [/quote] Why does the electric try to substitute, doesn't it just add something different? But yeah i guess its down to taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 imho i dont think electric walking bass lines get any better than this... [url="http://youtu.be/oHOSUEPsKFk"]http://youtu.be/oHOSUEPsKFk[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 There is an argument that no electric bass players can swing..... That statement is by no means an absolute (an is probably nonsense) but there is a real issue in determining what the OP means by 'swing', what the industry/market means by 'swing and what the concensus definition of 'swing' is amongst musicians. I would respectfully suggest that Laurence Cottle and Jeff Berlin don't swing at all. The only electric players I can think of who I would agree wholeheartedly can swing would be Swallow and Anthony Jackson and I am not sure about AJ!! There is a Brian Melvin/Jaco cd called Standards Zone where JP plays standards (Days of Wine and Roses is one I recall) and they are horrible. Jaco could swing at times, unquestionably (see Word of Mouth), but, at other times, it could be horrible. But Jeff Berlin is the most non-swingingest bass player I have ever heard ! The other guys listed by Jake are all credible in terms of the logic of their walking bass lines etc but, when you listen to jazz all of the time, the electric players trying to play 'swing' stick out like a sore thumb and rarely have the depth of a double bass (not sonic depth but the layers of overtones and the attack etc). A good six string player can get into that zone occasionally but they invariably give in to temptation and go up the neck and that is when the swing ebbs away. For the record, I have been considering this question as a aesthetic priority for over 25 years and have momentarily come close in my own playing, when the stars were aligned, but, since I got the double bass, it was quickly apparent that I can't swing on electric OR double bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisthebass Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Just to add to this - if you're playing standards, DB is the way to go (especially if you want to be taken seriously by the more ardent jazzbos). The instrument (DB) seems to tonally "sit" better in that setting, than electric. Another electric player I've heard who plays really good walking bass lines is Jeff Andrews (Vital Information / Mike Stern). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithless Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) I think this whole "if you gonna play Jazz, you HAVE to go DB way" is a bit of a bullshit in a sense, that it's pretty much all down to 'aesthetics' rather than the content - music. I mean, you can play electric, play upright - question is - does it gonna make other players in the band sound better, play better solos, comp better, etc? Of course, no. I'm not a new guy to the scene, and I know what you're saying about getting gigs - I've been in this situation myself, when I was called for a jazz gig by a sax player, and he asked me (I play only electric bass)- could you do this gig if [i]needed[/i]? I was - for sure, I can do it, but what do you mean by [i]"if needed"? [/i] He answered: Well, I called another guy first , who plays DB, but he aint sure if he can do that date, but I like the DB sound better, and if he'll agree on the gig, I'll pick him, I only wanted to have you as an [i]option B[/i]. This whole thing just made me smile - at the end, the DB guy agreed, but as I've said, it didnt enhance band's playing at all. As for Berlin - well, I mean, if one of world's truly greatest Jazz electric bass players can't swing, then who can? I think it's all pretty down to taste - Berlin's stuff might be arguable, his opinions on music might be too, but he could outplay all of us sitting under the table, so i'd just take it easy on him. Edited March 12, 2012 by Faithless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I've got to disagree about Berlin...the guy swings like crazy. There are plenty of guys who swing hard on the electric bass,but I think the reason that people like Upright for jazz is nit because it swings harder,but because of the envelope of the note. Because of the difference in scale and the fact that a Double Bass has a massive body to vibrate,the whole attack and decay of the note seems to sit really well when playing walking. The electric bass has more of an instant attack which some people don't like within a jazz context and often mistake for (lack of)'swing'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Can Berlin out-play us all? I guess if you measure playing in a notes per second, how hard is it to play kind of way but swing? What is interesting to note about JB is his almost complete absence from the broad 'Jazz' genre (as opposed to 'fusion'). Nobody books him to play/record because he is not actually very musical. Clever, cerebral yes. But not musical. His playing lacks emotional content and his sound is nasty. I want to like his stuff but it doesn't sound very nice. His cds are all very cleverly executed but emotionally flat as f***. He keeps trying to get famous singers to use him as a bass vocal feature but they don't because, ultimately, they all know it won't work. Not because they lack courage (as he would probably say) or because their producers think it is not commercial enough but because it won't work. His chordal playing on bass is clever but the sound is not engaging. And he doesn't swing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieBenzies Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I'm with you Jack, whilst I am learning upright as well I personally see no reason why electric should be ruled out for standards playing. I also agree with you on the matter of electric bass being a different instrument in it's own right and the idea of substituting for double bass not being pleasing one. I fully understand how upright bass has a richer sound and fits the tradition etc, as well as being aesthetically more comfortable in a jazz setting. So as far as business and making money goes I would definitely agree that upright is more benevolent in standard jazz, however if you are pursuing a creative goal and are avoiding this compromise of learning upright bass then go for it (as you are). A good electric player with the right mentality and great rhythm is great to hear on standards, best examples in my opinion being Dario Deidda, Kevin Glasgow and Laurence Cottle, who objectively swing like m*****f***ers. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu-O4UjXEkM&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu-O4UjXEkM&feature=related[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1331570825' post='1575041'] I've got to disagree about Berlin...the guy swings like crazy. There are plenty of guys who swing hard on the electric bass,but I think the reason that people like Upright for jazz is nit because it swings harder,but because of the envelope of the note. Because of the difference in scale and the fact that a Double Bass has a massive body to vibrate,the whole attack and decay of the note seems to sit really well when playing walking. The electric bass has more of an instant attack which some people don't like within a jazz context and often mistake for (lack of)'swing'. [/quote] My original point was that definitions of swing are important here because, by mine, JB doesn't swing at all; not even close. All the others listed are the same. Nice players; great shuffles, great grooves, great solos etc but, when it comes down to it, they are thin and unsatisfying compared to a DB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 There is no doubt that there are attributes that the DB possess that make it sound swinging, I however, play both and feel that I can swing equally on either instrument. I believe it's a feel that comes from the player... and I'm going to offer it up to you guys to either agree or disagree by writing out a blues line and playing it on both basses, recording it and posting it in the recording section, I would invite anybody to do the same so we can all have a listen to the various notions of what swing is....! I'm busy for a few days but will get it up before the weekend hopefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I do like a dare!!! We will all have to make sure that our backing tracks are the same for each take otherwise the swing will be different because of the drums as much as because of the electric/double bass comparison. I have a week from hell but will get to it as soon as I can. In the meantime...... [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Zj8Hb2pTqo&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Zj8Hb2pTqo&feature=related[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithless Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1331565545' post='1574898'] imho i dont think electric walking bass lines get any better than this... [media]http://youtu.be/oHOSUEPsKFk[/media] [/quote] I believe that's Mike Pope doing it's thing? heck, what a monster.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Very quick, very clever but does it swing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Faithless' timestamp='1331583192' post='1575397'] I believe that's Mike Pope doing it's thing? heck, what a monster.... [/quote] Yeah that's Mike Pope.... ridiculously good player. It's not a straight ahead 'classic' swinging tune...but,yeah that swings. Edit....although it's not a tune that I would play to someone who wanted to learn about swinging walking lines. Edited March 12, 2012 by Doddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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