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Matt P

Another Promethean Clone?

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[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1368353273' post='2075914']


I did use it with a more sensible band, and it was fine, plenty loud through my 2 15" cabs, and no clipping or weird noises. Must have been the twattingly loud keyboard monitor it was next to.
[/quote]
Best description yet.

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Doesn't look like it unless you count the combo amp with the detachable head. Seems they only do 1x15, 2x10 and 4x10's which are identical to each other.

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[quote name='BernardJazz' timestamp='1368317522' post='2075712']
Just gigged my RedSub head + cab tonight, happy as hell with it.
Had a blast watching the band before mine whose bassist has a Fender Aerodyne Jazz (which I so desperately want) and an Orange Tiny Terror + matching cab, it sounded so warm and punchy, kind of made me want to caress a pair of tits somewhat vigorously.

[b]The RedSub definitely has a solid mid to high end punch to it[/b], I had to whack the bass up a bit on the bass boost but the tone is 100% usable.
The 1 x 15 cab is fairly light, it's less than half the weight of my old Crate combo which I used to lug around (it was about 95lb). It's nice to be able to carry a cab with just one hand.

I'd obviously prefer the Orange stuff, but at a fraction of the price and weight I'm certainly not complaining.
[/quote]

The contour control will help you tame that. Can well scoop it out if you feel that way inclined. I have the contour engaged and at about 12:30, but have a play with it and see what works best for you.

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[quote name='libertino' timestamp='1378046742' post='2195041']
Is the combo still available anywhere? Is anyone looking to sell theirs?
[/quote]

One for sale right here: http://basschat.co.uk/topic/216965-harley-benton-ba5110c-combo-promethean-clone/page__view__findpost__p__2208484

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Interesting experience today with the amplifier from my Harley Benton BA5110C:

I was doing an outdoor gig with little PA support so, knowing I would need a bit of extra welly, I was using the Harley Benton head with my EBS 2x12 cab, rather than in its 'combo' format. (Sidenote: what a great extra option it is to have this ability!) All was going perfectly for a while (bassplayer cockups notwithstanding) until the amp vibrated off the top of the cab and plummeted to the ground, followed by a deafening silence from the bass guitar.

It was immediately apparent that the amp had landed on the input jack plug, bashing the socket into the innards of the amp. After a few brief curses, we replugged the bass directly into the PA to finish the gig. (It sounded bad!)

Got home and decided to investigate the damage. I was fully prepared for the likelihood that the preamp pcb was shattered into several pieces and would be unsalvageable. However, it turns out that, unlike lots of modern amps with jack sockets perilously mounted directly on the main pcb, the Harley Benton's input socket is mounted on its own tiny pcb, and so was just floating loose inside the amp, dangling on its connecting cable. As it's just a standard plastic jack, I just needed to replace the retaining nut (got lots of them kicking about) and... all was restored to life - marvellous!

On a little side note: it's been well documented here and elsewhere that this amp is extremely similar to the original Ibanez Promethean, and is, like the Ibanez, manufactured by Beta-Aivin. It has been noted, though, that the Harley Benton (and Red Sub versions) have a different preamp from the Promethean. However, when I had the input socket, with its little pcb, dangling free on its cable, I noticed something (mildly) interesting: the little input pcb has been created (in the manufacturing process) from a cut-off corner of the main preamp pcb. On the pcb, normally hidden from view when the amp is assembled, is printed a big logo: IBANEZ.

So... things I learned today:

1) If you're using a lightweight amp, you really need to find some way of preventing it from vibrating off the top of the speaker cab. :blush:

2) The Beta Aivin / Harley Benton / Red Sub amps are constructed more sensibly / less flimsily than you might imagine.

3) The preamp in the Beta Aivin / Harley Benton / Red Sub amps may be slightly different from that in the Promethean - but similar enough that it appears to use the same circuit board...

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Cool stuff! Thanks!
Oh and congrats on an easy repair.

So, preventing it from wandering, eh? Hm. I think I'll write a note. ;)

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I just thought I would chime in here - I am the Promethean owner who was trying out different 10" drivers in the combo, with reference to LawrenceH earlier in the thread (page 5).

I used mine with a Barefaced Midget as a mighty mini stack and found the original 10" driver was a bit close to the edge sometimes.

I ended up using a Celestion NTR10-2520D 10" Neo driver and it worked out very well - it also shaved another 5lbs off the combos already light weight. Unfortunately, I have since moved on the Midget (needed cash) and now use the Promethean with a cheap 2X10 so I still have a 500W mini rig :)

The original 10" driver is this one: [url="http://www.elderaudio.com/products/Loudspeakers/LowMiddle/2009/10LB075-U.html"]http://www.elderaudio.com/products/Loudspeakers/LowMiddle/2009/10LB075-U.html[/url] which seems to be the same as the current Red Sub as stated above.

I have found my original driver and it weighs around 9.5lbs so the Beyma suggested earlier (weighing 15.5lbs) seems unlikely.

Hope that helps.

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[quote name='StraightSix' timestamp='1393292584' post='2378450']
I just thought I would chime in here - I am the Promethean owner who was trying out different 10" drivers in the combo, with reference to LawrenceH earlier in the thread (page 5).

I used mine with a Barefaced Midget as a mighty mini stack and found the original 10" driver was a bit close to the edge sometimes.

I ended up using a Celestion NTR10-2520D 10" Neo driver and it worked out very well - it also shaved another 5lbs off the combos already light weight. Unfortunately, I have since moved on the Midget (needed cash) and now use the Promethean with a cheap 2X10 so I still have a 500W mini rig :)

The original 10" driver is this one: [url="http://www.elderaudio.com/products/Loudspeakers/LowMiddle/2009/10LB075-U.html"]http://www.elderaudi.../10LB075-U.html[/url] which seems to be the same as the current Red Sub as stated above.

I have found my original driver and it weighs around 9.5lbs so the Beyma suggested earlier (weighing 15.5lbs) seems unlikely.

Hope that helps.
[/quote]

Regarding the stock vs celestion drivers, how would you describe the tonal diferences? Just with the combo, no external cabs hooked up. Would you say it's an upgrade? I'm very pleased with my stock driver, it's loud, clear and has a good bottom end but it does have some voicing and needs EQ on the amp to sound good to my ears, is the Celestion more flat?

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I have to say that I already had the Midget when I first bought the Promethean so the Ibanez speaker straining was quite obvious early on (at high power levels obviously).

It is difficult to recall exactly what tonal difference there was but it was a definite improvement over the stock 10" driver.

I started a thread over on Talkbass where I was assisted by a couple of knowledgable WinISD experts to help with getting a suitable driver: [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/ibanez-promethean-p5110-speaker-upgrade-874880/"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/ibanez-promethean-p5110-speaker-upgrade-874880/[/url]

HTH

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Funnily enough that Celestion is the model I chose when building my own 110 cabs, as about the most suitable lightweight 10" driver on the market at the time for bass guitar. It has proven a very capable little driver, unfortunately retail price has pretty much doubled since I got them. There still aren't many 10"ers out there that are as suited to compact lightweight bass cabs IMO

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Just looking through that talkbass thread, see it was a toss-up between the celestion and the deltalite. Fwiw I have both and despite what the thread implies, the Celestion is a better driver IMO. It will certainly drive a lot harder before running out of steam

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I happened upon this thread again - it's like one of those old school car mag "long term test drive" type reviews ;) My Red Sub is still rumbling along - mostly nicely. It has developed a small fault - there's something iffy about the headphone jack which causes it to short occasionally, hence having the effect of muting the amp as if a plug had been inserted. Easy fix, plug something in it then remove it and it clears the problem (I always have a 1/4" > 3.5mm converter in the aux input so something suitable is always to hand). It only happens once in a blue moon so I haven't got around to looking into it. I guess the socket needs replaced which shouldn't be too troublesome.

It has been used at least once a week at "war volume", mostly in the combo at rehearsals where it is the only bass producing equipment in the entire room and makes itself heard over the top of drums, keys, vocals, trombone and sax. In March that'll be 4 years I've had it and it keeps on doing exactly what I need. I will be sad if it ever does give up the ghost - to me this amp does everything I need and it'll be a right bugger to replace as I don't think there's anything quite like it around at the moment - not that I've been seriously looking.

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Another year goes by, another year of bassy joy so time for thread revival/long term road test update. I finally got around to fixing the intermittent muting issue (5 year warranty ended in March), replacing the headphone socket looks like it has done the trick (hasn't muted itself in a couple of months now).

Who would have thought such an inexpensive (£300) amp could have lasted this long? I am rubbish at betting, but I definitely picked a winner here.

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[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1496402426' post='3311080']
Another year goes by, another year of bassy joy so time for thread revival/long term road test update. I finally got around to fixing the intermittent muting issue (5 year warranty ended in March), replacing the headphone socket looks like it has done the trick (hasn't muted itself in a couple of months now).
Who would have thought such an inexpensive (£300) amp could have lasted this long? I am rubbish at betting, but I definitely picked a winner here.
[/quote]

Are these still being made and sold anywhere?

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[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1508878591' post='3395139']
Are these still being made and sold anywhere?
[/quote]

They still come up on the Beta Aivin (manufacturer) website (BT2510 - http://www.beta-aivin.com/English/Products/Bass/BT/English_205.html) but I can't see them available anywhere I looked. I had a quick look for the Red Sub, the Harley Benton and the Beta Aivin badged variants and all came up blank. Where found, always shown as no longer in stock.

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[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1508937914' post='3395489']
They still come up on the Beta Aivin (manufacturer) website (BT2510 - [url="http://www.beta-aivin.com/English/Products/Bass/BT/English_205.html"]http://www.beta-aivi...nglish_205.html[/url]) but I can't see them available anywhere I looked. I had a quick look for the Red Sub, the Harley Benton and the Beta Aivin badged variants and all came up blank. Where found, always shown as no longer in stock.
[/quote]

Thanks for looking. Shame. I really appreciated my little Promethean 3110 for its [i]portability [/i]to rehearsals and having an extra 200W headroom in the Red Sub in something with a similar size was potentially very appealing.

Out of interest how decent / rough(!) was the 10" speaker and driver, and did you get the full 500W through this or only with an extension speaker? (Apologies if these questions have been previously been dealt with earlier in this mega thread!)

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[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1508945597' post='3395539']
Thanks for looking. Shame. I really appreciated my little Promethean 3110 for its [i]portability [/i]to rehearsals and having an extra 200W headroom in the Red Sub in something with a similar size was potentially very appealing.

Out of interest how decent / rough(!) was the 10" speaker and driver, and did you get the full 500W through this or only with an extension speaker? (Apologies if these questions have been previously been dealt with earlier in this mega thread!)
[/quote]

I find the sound of the combo to be pretty pleasing - in a rehearsal room situation against a drums, keys, sax, trombone and vocals it makes itself heard pretty well (it does need to be pushed quite hard to do this (7 or 8 out of 10 on the master volume, gain set appropriately - as much as I can without significant clip), but it's taken over 5 years of this weekly). Sure it's a little boxy sounding, but it has a very usable tone which works well in the live environment, right amount/type of mids I guess.

500W only possible with the use of an extension (or removing the head and using it with a 4 ohm cab or combination of cabs). The speaker in the combo is 8 ohms, so it's 250W in the combo by itself. I used to remove the head and use it with a 4 ohm 4x10 but these days I keep the combo together and stack the whole thing on top of an 8 ohm 1x10 cab to yield the full 500W. I've been very happy with the sound that comes out of this. Used it recently at a small pub gig and the bassist in the other band borrowed it so I had the opportunity to hear it being played by someone else and it sounded great.

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[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1509008936' post='3395932']
I find the sound of the combo to be pretty pleasing - in a rehearsal room situation against a drums, keys, sax, trombone and vocals it makes itself heard pretty well (it does need to be pushed quite hard to do this (7 or 8 out of 10 on the master volume, gain set appropriately - as much as I can without significant clip), but it's taken over 5 years of this weekly). Sure it's a little boxy sounding, but it has a very usable tone which works well in the live environment, right amount/type of mids I guess.

500W only possible with the use of an extension (or removing the head and using it with a 4 ohm cab or combination of cabs). The speaker in the combo is 8 ohms, so it's 250W in the combo by itself. I used to remove the head and use it with a 4 ohm 4x10 but these days I keep the combo together and stack the whole thing on top of an 8 ohm 1x10 cab to yield the full 500W. I've been very happy with the sound that comes out of this. Used it recently at a small pub gig and the bassist in the other band borrowed it so I had the opportunity to hear it being played by someone else and it sounded great.
[/quote]

Thanks for that and a useful comparison for me with the Promethean 3110 which interestingly does not require an extension cab to get the full 300W out of it: it either puts 300W through its own 10 inch speaker or diverts 150W to an extension cab so the output is always 300W. However, I would 100% agree that the Promethean is louder and more effective with a decent extension cab (I particularly liked pairing it up with a 4x10 studio cab in rehearsals!).

Sadly I guess this is all a bit [i]otiose[/i] (a marvellous word) if the Red Sub 500W is no longer available (and they seem to be even rarer than the Promethean second hand).

Edited by Al Krow

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