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Matt P

Another Promethean Clone?

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Just saw these, they look mighty familiar!

If Ibanez do stop the production of the 500W Prometheans it seems that there might be other options.

[url="http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/RedSub-BT500H-500W-Bass-Head/B1D"]http://www.gear4musi...W-Bass-Head/B1D[/url]

[url="http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/RedSub-BT5110-500W-Bass-Amp/C61"]http://www.gear4musi...0W-Bass-Amp/C61[/url]

Red Sub is a new name to me but the prices seem pretty good.

Matt

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Hells bells, have you read the spec of the combo, 500 watts at 8 ohms! ;)

Anyhow, three hundred noughts for a 500 watt combo is great value. £240 just for the head makes it a viable option as a backup unit too. I wonder it they're planning cabs too?

Edited by derrenleepoole

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Looks like re-badged Harley Benton stuff to me. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, of course.

The Harley Benton amp is currently £158.17 at Thomann [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_ba500h.htm"]http://www.thomann.d...nton_ba500h.htm[/url]
The equivalent 2X10 HB cab is £111.31 [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_bb210t.htm"]http://www.thomann.d...nton_bb210t.htm[/url]
The HB combo is £238.52 [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_ba5110c.htm"]http://www.thomann.d...ton_ba5110c.htm[/url]

Just sayin'... :) Slightly different specs though, so you pays your money and takes your choice, I suppose.

Edit: And I expect Harley Benton is re-badged... er, something else, in it's turn.

Edited by discreet

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ah fair enough, didn't realise the harley benton one was so cheap! the specs are slightly different though, if the head really is 500watts at 8 ohms that would be ace!

Matt

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[quote name='Matt P' timestamp='1329506009' post='1543660']
...the specs are slightly different though, if the head really is 500watts at 8 ohms that would be ace!
[/quote]

I agree! But I've been down that road before.
If something seems too good to be true, it probably is! :) Quality kit is never cheap.

Edit: Might be OK for emergency back-up though, as stated above.

Edited by discreet

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1329506348' post='1543672']
If something seems too good to be true, it probably is! :) Quality kit is never cheap.


[/quote]

My thoughts exactly (but then I thought the Promethean would be too good to be true when it first came out too).

Edited by gjones

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[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1329507472' post='1543699']
My thoughts exactly (but then I thought the Promethean would be too good to be true when it first came out too).
[/quote]

The Promethean is relatively expensive though!
Not that that's a guarantee of quality of course, but from other threads on here I believe it's pretty good?

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These are made by Beta Aivin, just like the Promethean and Harley Benton.

The pictures of the Red Sub are the same as the Harley Benton - despite the description there is no pre/post eq switch or level control for the DI in the pictures. There is on the Beta Aivin model however.

[attachment=100215:beta aivin amp.jpg]

Exactly why this should be is anyone's guess.

I'm sure the 500w at 8 ohms is a typo however. I've never know a manufacture to claim an 8 ohm figure when the headline wattage is usually at 4 ohms. Unless it doesn't go down to 4 ohms. :rolleyes:

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[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1329513440' post='1543828']
These are made by Beta Aivin, just like the Promethean and Harley Benton.
[/quote]

If this is the case then it means the Promethean's price point is pure marketing, and the HB/RS amps are good value! :D
The plot thickens...

Edit: Assuming a similar build quality/spec for all three, that is...

Edited by discreet

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1329513878' post='1543839']
If this is the case then it means the Promethean's price point is pure marketing, and the HB/RS amps are good value! :D
The plot thickens...
[/quote]
A point Beta Aivin make themselves (though not actually the marketing bit :lol: )

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_628c47990100gkex.html&ei=EZqCS8aZK8mXtgfW7pSdBw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAsQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3DBT500H%2Bp500h%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3D6WF%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official

It's another dodgy Google translation, but you can get the gist. They actually designed the Promethean, but used a different preamp circuit on their own model for copyright reasons. Exactly how modified it is is open to speculation.

Interestingly it seems they used MarkBass as a 'reference' for the pre amp.

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[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1329514361' post='1543847']
Not necessarily
[/quote]

That just occurred to me, hence the edit. :D

Edited by discreet

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Can't find anyone stocking this one but 750 watts into 4 ohms sounds even more interesting, should be good at lower power with that headroom.

[url="http://www.beta-aivin.com/English/Products/Bass/bh/English_260.html"]http://www.beta-aivin.com/English/Products/Bass/bh/English_260.html[/url]

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[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1329514361' post='1543847']
Not necessarily

Thomanns HB and Red Sub could say we want these amps and Pay $x for y quality

Ibanez could say we want to pay $2x for 2y quality.

Which one gets the quality components??
[/quote]

True. The Beta Aivin on the I linked to has Neutrik speakons. I'm not sure what the Promethean has, but I'd guess it also uses Neutriks. My Harley Benton doesn't.

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ooh that 750 w version looks fun, I wonder what the smallest number would be for our own tweaked version, a basschat750H. I'd have one (at the right price of course)

Matt

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As cool as this (but with different drivers of course)?

http://www.samsontech.com/hartke/products/cabinets/xl-cabinets/2.5xl/

As they say, the plot thickens!

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Well, I have obtained one of these RedSub 5110 combos. I was waiting for the Thomann one to come back into stock but they kept pushing the date back repeatedly, then they delisted it (although they did say it would be back when quizzed).



Certainly it has no problem with practising - got aux in and headphones and sounds dandy at moderate volume levels.

I tried it in my wife's studio - it's separate from the house so I could crank it up a bit. I was rattling some pictures on the walls :)

So I took it to a band rehearsal last week, not convinced that it would be able to keep up with drums, guitar and keys. Well, it did. With gain set pretty high but without clipping and the master at about 1 o' clock it was easily audible and the band said they really liked how it sounded. Result!

I've got a jam round someone's house tomorrow night and I'm bringing it there. If it handled last week then I'm sure it'll be fine in this setting.

I did take the head out of the combo and hook it up to my Zoot 4x10 but it wasn't a very good test - too many rattly things in the room distracting me. Maybe I'll try it outside :)

So, the story will develop, but at this time you can put me down as surprised and impressed so far.

Obviously with it being something of the order of half the price of a Promethean something has to give - it's not the prettiest of boxes, the "stand" is a threaded post with a rubber foot that you screw into a hole in the bottom of the combo, the aux in and headphone sockets are 1/4" jacks which means looking for converters when the majority of things that you would plug in there (MP3 players, mobile phones) are 3.5mm jack. Removing the head is not tool free in my experience - the screws do have large slot heads with ridges for grip but they're just way too tight to turn by hand when fully screwed in. Maybe in time they'll free up a bit. Mine also smells a little funky after it's been on for a while - perhaps there's a daub of glue somewhere there shouldn't be. Again in time hopefully this will calm down. The DI is very basic, only a ground lift switch is provided (no pre/post EQ). But it's all little niggles which can be worked around/overlooked.

So basically, it sounds good, it's very portable, very flexible and while I'm sure the combo has its limitations in terms of bass projection (also don't put it up against a wall, it's rear ported), it has more than enough oomph to fill a rehearsal room with bass and given the choice between using this at a gig and not playing at all, I know what I'd do.

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Very interesting Matt.
Would be cool to A-B this with the "real deal".
Glad it's working out nicely so far :)

Eude

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[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1331648012' post='1576514']
...The DI is very basic, only a ground lift switch is provided (no pre/post EQ)...[/quote]

Thanks for this! If there is no pre/post switch on the DI out, is the DI pre... or post EQ?
I have an LM250 with no pre/post switch, and Markbass tell me the DI is post EQ.

Edited by discreet

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I can confirm that the DI is post EQ. Now that I've got it hooked up to the USB interface I suppose I should record something... :)

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Ta for the review - my interest bad been pricked by the description on the G4M website but real world feedback is useful to calm "too good to be true" fears.

I've got a couple of questions:
How many speaker sockets are on the head?
If more than one, is it possible to connect up an extension cab with the head still in the combo and connected to it?
Cheers in advance.

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