la bam Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Interesting replies. Its weird that we all (including myself) spend ages looking for that perfect sound - changing basses, cabs, strings, pedals etc - then use different ones to compliment the band when gigging. I have noticed that a real middly aggressive sound close up turns into a clear warm sound when having a wonder out to listen. Its the correct thing to do though - sacrifice for the greater good of the band sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I've frequently come back from a gig, having run some EQ tweaks (frequently mids boosted) on the fly to get the sound right for the room and what the rest of the band are sounding like, plugged the bass in (usually the following day) and thought "Holy cow, that's harsh". So yes, I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1326461397' post='1497506'] ....don't despair because the truth is that most of 'your' sound comes from how you play, not the amp, cab, bass etc. you use.... [/quote] [size=4]+1[/size] [size=4]I've been told that I sound mostly the same through all the cabs and amps that I've used in the last 10 years. I was slightly offended. Didn't they realise that the gear I have now sounds the best ever? That's when I realised that brensabre's comment is true. [/size] [size=4] [/size] [size=4]The vanity of getting the "sound in your head" is always lost on an audience.[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) I should probably clarify that whilst you are mostly responsible fo your sound some gear reproduces it better than others. I've just spent a shed load on a new rig and it wasn't in vein as I'm able to get the sound I want from it more easily (running pretty much flat as opposed to tons of EQ). So I'm definitely not saying that investing in good equipment is a waste of time. What I am saying, is that given any bass, and any rig, even with all the same settings no two bassists will sound exactly the same. You will always get pretty close to your sound whatever equipment you use though by tweaking controls to your liking. The sound engineer will do the same with what you give them. Drummers usually come out worst off though, I used to hate the clicky 80s heavy metal bass drum sound (when I played drums) yet despite using a soft beater and oil filled heads - I would always get whatever noise the sound man wanted from my miked up kit. Long hair and a motley crue t-shirt usually meant me and the sound guy were not going to agree on things, however you can always have a chat with the sound engineer and most (if not all) are quite agreeable if they believe you know your sound and how it works well in the context of the rest of the band. Have a chat about it, don't just say "I like my bass to be really toppy" Edited January 13, 2012 by brensabre79 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1326466842' post='1497620'] ....I should probably clarify that whilst you are mostly responsible fo your sound some gear reproduces it better than others.... [/quote] My background is Epifani, Mesa Boogie, Bergantino, Markbass, TC and Thunderfunk. I understand that Behringer and Harley Benton etc would make a significant difference that would be difficult for your fingers alone to overcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomBassmonkey Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Very rarely, a 'ray into a GK has plenty of cutting power to get through the mix. Unless I sound boomy (which is only really hollow wooden stages) then I usually don't touch anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='la bam' timestamp='1326465155' post='1497586'] Interesting replies. Its weird that we all (including myself) spend ages looking for that perfect sound - changing basses, cabs, strings, pedals etc - then use different ones to compliment the band when gigging. I have noticed that a real middly aggressive sound close up turns into a clear warm sound when having a wonder out to listen. Its the correct thing to do though - sacrifice for the greater good of the band sound. [/quote] Not really. I know how the basses sound and how I want them to sound. I have amps and cabs that can replicate that time and time again..sometimes they do that a tad better, and sometimes not as good, depending on the stage acoustics but never poor or bad. There is a slight bias depending on the room and stage, but it is quite a wide envelope to work with, IMO. If my sound isn't there, it will be because the strings have had it and I should have changed them but basically I sound like I pretty much always want to sound because if it doesn't, I'l play a different way... which might not be how I want to do it or envisaged it. That doesn't want to happen by accident to much degree. I think I'll suss out most engrs during the sound check and I'll give him something to work on if he doesn't know us. He should be trying to get an idea from my stage sound but you may need to help him by soundchecking the most difficult sounding songs/parts Our band mix is generally pretty good as we have sorted the sounds ourselves...so it is no great rocket science for someone else who knows what they are doing. The only iffy thing is the keys...as bass, drums and gtrs are mixed to sit well with loads of seperation...whereas an 88 keyboard crosses all paths if you aren't careful. We are generally pretty quick and a long soundcheck would be 30 mins total. If we have more time, then great but if your core sounds are good, then it is just a question of batching it all, really.... Of course, just because someone turns up with decent spec'd P.A doesn't mean they know what they are doing just as all the gear and no idea players might not either.. You can make it easier on them tho... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigster Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1326461397' post='1497506'] As a former sound guy in venues doing 4 or 5 bands a night sometimes I can say that in most cases you'll get whatever sound the sound guy gives ya. The settings on your amp work with your cab in the room, but the PA is a different cab and so your settings will usually not be useful to FOH. Also, the sound guy should know the room and will EQ all the instruments to get the best out of the equipment and the room and make the show sound good. Your own personal bass sound is somewher on page 2 or 3 of priorities in this situation, however don't despair because the truth is that most of 'your' sound comes from how you play, not the amp, cab, bass etc. you use. Thats why when I did the 6 band marathon nights, I'd set everything up first with the headline act eq wise then adjust volume levels for each act - the job of an in house PA in sound reinforcement, so any eq etc. really should be just to get rid of unwanted frequencies (room resonances, badly tuned drums etc.) If you have your own engineer this is different, they will know your songs, and can add effects, level boosts eq etc. on a song by song basis (e.g. big vocal delay on the start of One Step Beyond, Slap bass - boost treble for lessons in love) I do the PA for our covers band, vocals and sax only (occasionally the kick drum) go through it so the backline is naked. At each soundcheck the guitar keyboard and bass amps are all tweaked to suit the room (essentially doing he job of the sound man, minus the PA) and the PA is tweaked to ring out the frequencies which are most likely to feedback - usually the resonances of the room or harmonics therof! [/quote] always curious about how much extraneous string noise/scratching cuts through in all this - like super new rounds for example... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperbob 2002 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Jigster' timestamp='1326471513' post='1497725'] always curious about how much extraneous string noise/scratching cuts through in all this - like super new rounds for example... [/quote] not much-if any at all depending upon your cab / amp / pa.Guitar, cymbals, keys all in those frequencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Coming from the same angle as Ben, I treat my bass tone the same as I would any p.a equipment, in that it needs to be EQ`d for the stage and/or room. You wouldn`t expect to take a P.A into a venue and say, well, I EQd it in the unit so..... Even drummers are supposed to tune for the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='la bam' timestamp='1326465155' post='1497586'] Interesting replies. Its weird that we all (including myself) spend ages looking for that perfect sound - changing basses, cabs, strings, pedals etc - then use different ones to compliment the band when gigging. I have noticed that a real middly aggressive sound close up turns into a clear warm sound when having a wonder out to listen. Its the correct thing to do though - sacrifice for the greater good of the band sound. [/quote] [quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1326465409' post='1497588'] I've frequently come back from a gig, having run some EQ tweaks (frequently mids boosted) on the fly to get the sound right for the room and what the rest of the band are sounding like, plugged the bass in (usually the following day) and thought "Holy cow, that's harsh". So yes, I do. [/quote] Yep, same as you both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The irony of course is that you tune for the room when there is nobody there. When you go to play there are (hopefully) a load of soft squidgy bodies in the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='BassBunny' timestamp='1326402027' post='1496877'] ...normally have to tweak the VLF or VPE on my MarkBass Amp to cater for the room acoustics. [/quote] Yep. Don't know what I'd do without those Markbass filters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1326487173' post='1498028'] Yep. Don't know what I'd do without those Markbass filters! [/quote] +1 more love for the filters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1326486953' post='1498022'] The irony of course is that you tune for the room when there is nobody there. When you go to play there are (hopefully) a load of soft squidgy bodies in the room. [/quote] Dems called Shitbags innit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1326494612' post='1498167'] What exactly are these Mark Bass filters [/quote] You stick em in your fags, stop your teeth going markbass yellow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1326494612' post='1498167'] What exactly are these Mark Bass filters? [/quote] You don't need a Markbass amp to have 'em! [url="http://www.markbass.it/product_detail.php?id=117"]http://www.markbass....tail.php?id=117[/url] Edit: The DI is [i]post[/i] filters. Edited January 14, 2012 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='Jigster' timestamp='1326462915' post='1497543'] Most worrying bit is [i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]most of 'your' sound comes from how you play, not the amp, cab, bass etc. you use. [/font][/color][/i][i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][/i][i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][/i] [/quote] Nah, that's the [i]least[/i] worrying bit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 As many have said, EQ-ing to the room and to the rest of the band is a necessity, and the sound of me through the PA is rarely "My sound", however I try as hard as possible for the stage sound to be as much of "my sound" as possible, the reason being that as I'm listening to what I'm playing, I'm going to be adjusting technique (unconsciously) to smooth out the harshness or give it an extra bit of attack where needed, and if the sound I'm hearing is scratchy and horrible then I'm going to be compensating to get away from this even though this is exactly what sounds best in the mix. Sometimes this means that I play gigs having total faith that the FOH sound is OK and trying to ignore what I perceive to be me making a crap sound - for example on tonight's gig there is no space for any backline and we'll all be straight into the desk. All the monitoring will be through a pair of wedges. Going to try IEMs soon though to see if this will help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 A pair of wedges for everyone...!! what sort of spec..?? no space for backline..?? why..?? And from the sounds of it, I'd be asking why bother with this gig..??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) I fitted a J Retro to my Jazz for this very reason. It means I can walk out front and adjust the EQ to fit the acoustics of the room as we soundcheck. This means that the sound coming out of my amp when I'm standing next to it can be a bit naff but I know out front it will sound good. Edited January 14, 2012 by gjones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='gjones' timestamp='1326572902' post='1499104'] I fitted a J Retro to my Jazz for this very reason. It means I can walk out front and adjust the EQ to fit the acoustics of the room as we soundcheck. This means that the sound coming out of my amp when I'm standing next to it can be a bit naff but I know out front it will sound good. [/quote] Thats an amazingly good example of common sense - much easier than strolling back to the amp, making adjustments, then back FOH to hear the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1326556357' post='1498810'] A pair of wedges for everyone...!! what sort of spec..?? no space for backline..?? why..?? And from the sounds of it, I'd be asking why bother with this gig..??? [/quote] couple of 300w active things - they had blue lights on if that helps. sorry, but I'm crap with gear I managed to squeeze in a small cab for myself so it went fine. tiny space (about 10ft by 8ft) in a tiny pub, seats for about 30 people. standing space for maybe 50 more at a squash, and they do squeeze in Why? because it is a mates pub, and it is an absolutely fantastic place and crowd. About half way between Olso and the Sweedish border. When it comes to fun gigs, this one beats all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1326625750' post='1499578'] Thats an amazingly good example of common sense - much easier than strolling back to the amp, making adjustments, then back FOH to hear the results. [/quote] It's how I do every gig. Alot of the time the soundguy is just putting a compressor on for FOH and I just re-EQ my amp so I can hear when I'm playing. It's all in the fingers and all that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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