C F Bb Eb Tuning?

[thebrig]

Just been reading the post on tuning down, and as did not want to high-jack it, I have decided to start another post for this particular tuning.

I play in a band that specialises in classic rock and blues, and it has been suggested by our drummer that we try 'No One Knows' by Queens Of The Stone Age.
Now I've down-tuned by half-a-tone, and also done a bit of drop D in the past, but the tuning on this song requires a tuning of C F Bb Eb.
The worry I have is that because it is such a low tuning right across the board, that this is going to affect the neck and intonation big-time, and that I really would need to have my spare bass set up just for this one song.
I tried it briefly at home, and it sounded terrible, the notes are very undefined, and the action just feels so sloppy.
I do have a fiver, but I have it set up with a high C, so would have to change that as well.

Any ideas/thoughts on this tuning would be much appreciated.

Edited January 10, 2012 by thebrig

[Mykesbass]

I'd explain to him how it isn't possible the current key with your bass and see if either the singer can take it up two tones or, if it is so crucial to your drummer that you do it as per the original he supplies a new, correctly set up bass for the job! In other words, flatly refuse but seem like you aren't!

[Les]

[indent=1]I'd say no and explain why. A mates lad plays in a band and he tunes his Yam bass down to C permanentley for his band, I found it unplayable.[/indent]

[EskimoBassist]

Or you could just modify the bassline to play in standard tuning? If you really need that low C thump, you could use an octave pedal and play the line one octave higher on your fretboard. I know that you would get a completely different feel by not hitting the open strings, but it would require no alterations to your bass.

[Ed_S]

I bought a cheap Squier P-bass to set up and keep in CFBbEb for the few songs when our guitarists switch to their C-standard axes. To get the tension feeling right on the 34" scale I went for the bottom of a set of D'addario 220-5s (so 65,75,95,125) which, granted, meant that I had to widen the slots in the nut somewhat. On the bright side, however, the overall tension must have ended up about the same as a set of 45-105s in standard because I didn't have to touch the truss rod at all. I guess it all depends how adventurous you're feeling, but it is possible to get it feeling and sounding good without anything too drastic in terms of setup.

[charic]

Short of getting custom strings or transposing the bassline you're a little bit stuck here I'm afraid. Why not do a 'version' of the track and alter it a bit to suit your bands style while you're at it?

Although I'm sure I've played this in the past and it wasn't that far down tuned... odd

[thebrig]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1326200325' post='1493637']
Short of getting custom strings or transposing the bassline you're a little bit stuck here I'm afraid. Why not do a 'version' of the track and alter it a bit to suit your bands style while you're at it?

Although I'm sure I've played this in the past and it wasn't that far down tuned... odd
[/quote][quote name='charic' timestamp='1326200325' post='1493637']
Short of getting custom strings or transposing the bassline you're a little bit stuck here I'm afraid. Why not do a 'version' of the track and alter it a bit to suit your bands style while you're at it?

Although I'm sure I've played this in the past and it wasn't that far down tuned... odd
[/quote]
Unfortunately, it definitely is a [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]C F Bb Eb tuning, and you really do need that low C 'thump' on the open string to make it work.[/font][/color]

Edited January 10, 2012 by thebrig

[johnny_frog]

Having had this exact same issue I restrung a cheapy spare bass with a set of rotosound drop zones (£20 from stringsdirect)
a wee bit nut fettling and a touch of intonation but that was it set up wise.
No truss rod adjustment was required.

[shizznit]

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1326201429' post='1493659']
Unfortunately, it definitely is a [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]C F Bb Eb tuning, and you really do need that low C thump on the open string to make it work.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I think I might might just tell him politely, that there are ZILLIONS of songs out there to choose from, so this one is getting the elbow!!![/font][/color]
[/quote]

I totally agree. Is it really worth all the hastle for just one song...really? Singers are quick enough to ask the band to change the key of a song if it doesn't fit in their range. Not that easy for the guitar and bass players to do on command if you have to tune the strings down or have an extra instrument just to play that one song. It's pointless. I am sure he can live with himself if you skip that song. It is a good song though!

[JakeBrownBass]

why not use the 5 string? The notes are there.

[thebrig]

[quote name='shizznit' timestamp='1326202565' post='1493687']
I totally agree. Is it really worth all the hastle for just one song...really? Singers are quick enough to ask the band to change the key of a song if it doesn't fit in their range. Not that easy for the guitar and bass players to do on command if you have to tune the strings down or have an extra instrument just to play that one song. It's pointless. I am sure he can live with himself if you skip that song. It is a good song though!
[/quote][quote name='shizznit' timestamp='1326202565' post='1493687']
I totally agree. Is it really worth all the hastle for just one song...really? Singers are quick enough to ask the band to change the key of a song if it doesn't fit in their range. Not that easy for the guitar and bass players to do on command if you have to tune the strings down or have an extra instrument just to play that one song. It's pointless. I am sure he can live with himself if you skip that song. It is a good song though!
[/quote]

Great point!
I don't think that I am ever going to use this tuning for anything else,except this one song.
If we were embarking on a 'world tour', and this song was crucial to our performance, then yes,
I would be more than happy to have a bass specially set-up for the purpose, but I'm sure we can find an
alternative number for our forthcoming tour, of the 'Dog & Duck, quickly followed by the 'Builder's Arms'.

[thebrig]

[quote name='JakeBrownBass' timestamp='1326202811' post='1493696']
why not use the 5 string? The notes are there.
[/quote][quote name='JakeBrownBass' timestamp='1326202811' post='1493696']
why not use the 5 string? The notes are there.
[/quote]
I've got it set up to high C

[shizznit]

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1326202821' post='1493697']
Great point!
I don't think that I am ever going to use this tuning for anything else,except this one song.
If we were embarking on a 'world tour', and this song was crucial to our performance, then yes,
I would be more than happy to have a bass specially set-up for the purpose, but I'm sure we can find an
alternative number for our forthcoming tour, of the 'Dog & Duck, quickly followed by the 'Builder's Arms'.
[/quote]

[u]Note to beginner players or about to start gigging for the first time[/u] - Don't have multiple change over of instruments during a gig unless you are paying what you earn from the evening to your own personal guitar tech to hand you a freshly tuned instrument just thw way you like it so you are ready to go within 10secs. If you can't afford a guitar tech to do that for you (most bands don't) and think that you can get away with playing a different guitar for each song like the Edge did at Glastonbury last year...don't bother! The time you waste will only p*ss off your audience and you don't want your singer telling more crappy jokes and winding up the audience even more whilst patiently waiting for you to sort your sh*t out. Take only what you need and be sensible.

You can probably tell I am a tad touchy about this topic!

[bassace]

[quote name='shizznit' timestamp='1326204247' post='1493730']
[u]Note to beginner players or about to start gigging for the first time[/u] - Don't have multiple change over of instruments during a gig unless you are paying what you earn from the evening to your own personal guitar tech to hand you a freshly tuned instrument just thw way you like it so you are ready to go within 10secs. If you can't afford a guitar tech to do that for you (most bands don't) and think that you can get away with playing a different guitar for each song like the Edge did at Glastonbury last year...don't bother! The time you waste will only p*ss off your audience and you don't want your singer telling more crappy jokes and winding up the audience even more whilst patiently waiting for you to sort your sh*t out. Take only what you need and be sensible.

You can probably tell I am a tad touchy about this topic!
[/quote]

WooHoo! I haven't played slab for the past thirty years but that makes an awful lot of sense.

[Sibob]

I spent four years in a touring band playing in Drop C standard (what you're talking about), I had two basses setup specifically in that tuning, with higher tension strings so i did have high action and sloppy strings etc.
This is obviously a bit above what you require, If you don't want to restring your 5er, I'd just get an octave pedal (always useable, so not a waste of cash in my eyes) and play it in standard tuning.

Si

[E sharp]

Just whip the E string down to a C for this one number , then tune it up again .
Our lot play this , and that's what I do . You'll get quite quick at doing it after a while , and you can also fine tune on harmonics on the E string , that's now a C , and the G string .

Try that and see how you go .

[Sibob]

You can of course downtune like that, but E down to C will generally sound pants IMO, any low frequesncy will probably just choke out through sloppy action, you won't gain anything over simply playing a standard octave C on the E string (8th fret), that generally sounds pretty fatter compared to a C on the A string (3rd fret).
Again, considering it's for one song, I'd just get an Octave pedal, which is easily implemented into other songs too.

Si

[thebrig]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1326198770' post='1493584']
I'd explain to him how it isn't possible the current key with your bass and see if either the singer can take it up two tones or, if it is so crucial to your drummer that you do it as per the original he supplies a new, correctly set up bass for the job! In other words, flatly refuse but seem like you aren't!
[/quote]
It's not crucial by our drummer that we play it, it was just a suggestion, and I don't mind the song, but it's just the tuning that is creating the problem.